8 Car Brands Falling Behind.....Scion on the list

[Frstorm]

Quas- it's because everyone thinks they could get a supra for the price of an frs. If the frs was 10k more and say 50hp more I don't think I would own it. Once you get to 35-40k price you open yourself to alot of options plus the 370z would be cheaper which would kill the sales.

[Frstorm]

Forgot to add for 2014 Nissan is dropping the price of the 370z by 3k. This is a direct result of the frs/brz taking to many customers. If they were the same price I still would of gotten the frs but tell me the frs would be like 5k higher than the 370z I would get the 370z.

[quasi86]

Not to mention $45k in '98 money is like $60k today. At that point it would be reduced to a rich guys toy. There are already too many of those. Why should they have all the fun?

So what if the Scion brand isn't some shining star in this galaxy.

The FR-S is.

Despite its flaws its worth every stinking penny of $25k.

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[thill]

Quasi86, you make some great points. If anyone thinks that a resurrected Supra in 2015-2016 that competes with the likes of Corvettes and GTR's is going to sell for less than $50-70K they are smoking something.

It is a collaboration with BMW, this car will be very limited and very expensive compared to an FR-S.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by thill

Quasi86, you make some great points. If anyone thinks that a resurrected Supra in 2015-2016 that competes with the likes of Corvettes and GTR's is going to sell for less than $50-70K they are smoking something.

It is a collaboration with BMW, this car will be very limited and very expensive compared to an FR-S.

It will probably sell as well as the LF-A everyone loves.... :/

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by CAMBAM_6

Sir please do not ever, ever, ever put the word SCION in front of Supra or MR2...EVER!!

It's already in front of FR-S. What the hell difference does it make? Especially if Scion only made good sports cars, like I listed. That's like saying you're mad about "Hyundai" being in front of "Genesis" because in 1992, Hyundai made a bunch of doodoo ass cars. Times and companies change.

If Scion only meant GT86, Supra, and MR2, and Toyota only meant Camry, Corolla, and Avalon, well then you could keep your "Toyota" and I'd be totally content with my "Scion". Let the business stiffs squabble over marketing shenanigans. We should be in favor of a positive future for driving enthusiasts, regardless if it means a new badass car being released with previously-looked-down-upon branding. If that's what it takes, it's still better than where we've been that last decade with no RWD sports cars at an easily affordable price.

That being said, "Scion Supra" does sound absolutely retarded.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Anthony

That being said, "Scion Supra" does sound absolutely retarded.

It would never be called that though. It's always been alluded to that tC was an acronym for a number of things, Toyota Celica being one of them, since it was basically its spiritual successor. I could imagine it being named the SRS, XS FRX or some catchy collection of Rs, Ss, Xs, etc.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

It would never be called that though.

Oh yeah, definitely not. And I think you were spot on with your Rs, Ss, Xs guess.

Maybe FRT, for Front Rear Turbo, but that just looks too much like FaRT. I respect when they name cars based on their layouts, as opposed to XRs, which is completely made up to fit into the United States' X-TREME! Marketing!!! It's what plants crave!!!

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by jblmr2

I agree to some extent. The problem for Toyota is they're trying to appeal to a narrow age group with a limited number of product offerings. If they expand the offerings they will run the risk of cannibalizing sales of Toyota branded vehicles. If they try expand Scion's appeal to older age brackets, they run the risk of becoming just a cheaper version of a Toyota.

GM is a perfect example of branding gone awry. Too many brands not enough differentiation.

Scion's only a third brand. GM had like 5 brands doing the same things, that's why half of them got jettisoned cuz GM expected ALL of them to have around the same sales numbers which was an unrealistic expectation.

Toyota appeals to the mainstream. Lexus appeals to luxury. Where else can Scion go?

The one plan they had was for 'upscale premium' or something that would slot between I think an Avalon and a Lexus ES. That IMO is a stupid move. The aforementioned cars already almost target the same demographic and kind of creates the bridge between Toyota and Lexus. And they've got cars that fit that hole already like the RX, and some higher end luxury trim models of Toyotas.

Sports car brand like others pointed out COULD work but resurrecting any nameplate under the Scion brand could backfire as we've seen already some people wont touch a 'insert classic car toyota nameplate' with a Scion badge. The FRS was fine under the Scion badge because there really wasn't a 'heritage' to base it on. Yeah theres the AE86 but that just happened to exist when small cheap RWD econoboxes were still alive. I mean its still a Corolla. I doubt it was ever made to be a fun tossable RWD sports car...it just happened to be one. but MR2, Celica, Supra, all should stay Toyota. The Scion tC was sort of the spiritual successor to the celica...why wasn't it CALLED a celica? Even overseas they called it a Toyota Zelas (in places that had them).

Ive said it before, and I think niche brand makes the most sense. They already sort of is one. The xB was a niche car that filled a need effectively before they ruined it (before its arrival there was no other car that really combined spaciousness and economy as effectively). The tC is compact FWD coupe, a niche market itself. Not a lot of players in the segment. FRS is a small RWD sports coupe, another niche and a car not for everyone (lowish power but cheap). The iQ is niche, pretty much only competes in a segment where the Smart cars exists. xD/xA...yeah those are just me too cars..they don't need to exist. they don't sell much as it is and is just a brand within Toyota really (at least in Canada they are).
IT doesn't help that the only cars that are actually FRESH are the FRS and the iQ. The tC is refreshed, and the xB and xD have been withering on the vine forever. Fix the xB, add a minitruck, maybe a small jeep, even a mini-minivan like those Daihatsu Hyjets or old VW Microbus's of yore. (japan has a bunch of those kinds of minivans). Hell bring over the Toyota MarkX or Toyota Crown under the scion badge, to add more RWD goodness.

[quasi86]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

It will probably sell as well as the LF-A everyone loves.... :/

The plan was always to only make 500 LFA and done. So not sure what your point is. Toyota's approach to that car "it was an exercise in engineering" "something to keep the engineers excited, get their juices flowing" then let that tech filter down through the company.

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[regal]

Originally Posted by quasi86

Is there anyway that we can have one thread discussing "brand strategy" in which the Supra is not brought up! I mean get f#$&king over it.

Its been 15 years since they built this car. Almost just as long since the fast and the furious made it look like a world beater. Forget about it already.

My dad has sold Toyota since '90. You should have seen how him and all the other guys that worked there at the time roll their eyes every time someone brings up this car. Let me put it in an industry term. "water on the lot"

Everyday some gear head would walk in and ask if they had any and when they didn't they would say "if you did I would buy it today" salesman.."well let me take your name and number, when we get one I'll call you" some time later phone rings customer says "uuuuuhhhhh nah man I'm not interested sorry"
When they stopped making the car and were literally down to the last few to ever get made, did everyone rush out to snatch up this historic classic before it was gone forever? No the last one they had sat in the showroom for over a year before someone bought it and they had to discount it almost 10k off the 45k price tag.

Its kinda like a person who died who wasn't all that great of a guy and prolly didn't have many friends all of the sudden becomes the most likeable and kind hearted soul because who's going to say something bad about a dead guy. Therefore they are remembered only has the greatest person that ever lived. Its like the Elvis of cars. Really great and entertaining at its peak but since its death its somehow been elevated to this legend status.

I sell Toyota and Scion myself and every time some douchebag says "its no supra" while looking at the fr-s I just want to flipping hit them and say "yeah good thing cause then it would be three times as much and completely unattainable to 97% of the people on the planet" cause that car was built to compete against Corvette and NSX and Porsche 911 notan entry level sports car "and even if you had the money you still wouldn't buy it cause your a douchebag"

The FR-S is a better car for so many reasons. And it will likely last longer than the Supra everyone holds in such high esteem.

RIP Supra '94 1/2 - '98. The car everyone thinks they remember but it was just Paul Walker and Vin Diesel movie magic and the human flaw to look at the past through rose colored glasses.


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Last year when I took my FR-S to the local Scion dealer to flash the Christmas tree dash on my bill they (the local Scion dealer) wrote Scion Supra. No joke.

Let me tell you why the Supra is legendary and why its popularity took off after its demise: bullet proof reliability. That I-6 was built for punishment and a lot of it, it takes a good car several years before people realize this thing will run forever or I can double the boost and not throw a rod. The movie only added to a reputation that was already building.

Same argument for the EG civic, those became popular because of the incredibly reliable power-train.

Look at the BMW i135 twin turbo I6, same damn formula as the Supra yet a failure, why? Because they break down, leave you stranded on the road.

What makes a great car is performance PLUS reliability.

Only time will tell if the FA20 is a bullet proof engine. An engine that will last as long as the chassis. An engine that can hold up to reasonable FI, an engine you can trust your life with if you take a wrong turn and end up in the ghetto.

Only time will tell, but that's why cars become popular on the used market. This forum is full of new car buyers like yourself who just don't get this concept and its core to the buyers of Japanese cars.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by quasi86

The plan was always to only make 500 LFA and done. So not sure what your point is. Toyota's approach to that car "it was an exercise in engineering" "something to keep the engineers excited, get their juices flowing" then let that tech filter down through the company.

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I just noticed the parallels between it and the Supra; just on a smaller scale. As in this sweet awesome car that everyone loves and no one actually buys.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

but MR2, Celica, Supra, all should stay Toyota. The Scion tC was sort of the spiritual successor to the celica...why wasn't it CALLED a celica? Even overseas they called it a Toyota Zelas (in places that had them).

In the states, Scion cars like the tC and FR-S out-sold the Toyota counterparts (Celica, MR2, Supra) by as much as 4:1. The heritage tie isn't as strong as people want to believe.

[R3d]

Originally Posted by PSORngr

There won't be any tears from me. Like others, before the FR-S I had zero interest in anything Scion had to offer. I don't like their other cars. I don't like their brand image. I'd rather have a Kia if I was going the young-hip branding route (Soul looks better than the xB, Optima looks nicer than the tC). Scion is near the bottom of my "brand list."

I hope your talking only looks cuz quality wise nothing is lower then kia except hyunday XD