Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[Sonolin]

Hello - first of all, I'd like to thank you guys for the work you've put into the kit so far and with how helpful you've been on the forum. A lot of people seem very aggressive towards you guys, but I guess that's what happens when your in the business of making superchargers. I'm definitely excited about your product, more so than a lot of other products out (with maybe the exception of innovative).

2 questions:

1. I noticed in your other thread, your dyno car was equipped with full bolt ons from Perrin. That is correct, right? Is there any way to get a dynoed car without any bolt ons, and just the supercharger kit? Its a little misleading, seeing ~245 rwhp, and then advertising the kit for $5200 just below that. It'd be much more comforting at least seeing a dyno of the car without any other mods (with just the supercharger kit), as I believe this is what a lot of people will be starting with.

2. I'd love to see a video of this kit on the street/track. Just a quick demo video, I can't find any on youtube at all. The dyno video was nice, but I for one (and probably most people looking at this kit), am looking for how fun & drivable this thing is in a real world scenario.


Thank you guys for all the work, and keep it up!

[congiiee]

Do you guys offer the complete kit without the Ecutek cable and license for the people that already have that? If so what would the price be?

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by Sonolin

Hello - first of all, I'd like to thank you guys for the work you've put into the kit so far and with how helpful you've been on the forum.

1. I noticed in your other thread, your dyno car was equipped with full bolt ons from Perrin. That is correct, right? Is there any way to get a dynoed car without any bolt ons, and just the supercharger kit? Its a little misleading, seeing ~245 rwhp, and then advertising the kit for $5200 just below that. It'd be much more comforting at least seeing a dyno of the car without any other mods (with just the supercharger kit), as I believe this is what a lot of people will be starting with.

2. I'd love to see a video of this kit on the street/track. Just a quick demo video, I can't find any on youtube at all. The dyno video was nice, but I for one (and probably most people looking at this kit), am looking for how fun & drivable this thing is in a real world scenario.

Thank you guys for all the work, and keep it up!

Thank you for saying so, and you are most welcome!

The dyno charts and the cars in our video that we posted on Monday of this week are stock cars with the exception of the V-3 Vortech System and a set of mufflers. The blue FR-S has a Borla axle-back, and the White BRZ (I believe) has a Perrin cat-back.

I'm sure there will be some playing around on the street videos soon enough...but I don't believe they will be made by us. We'll leave that to our customers.

Originally Posted by RedAlert

Could a meth/water injection system be combined with the Vortech? And if so, where would be the best location for the nozzle?

Although Vortech does not utilize methanol in any of our systems, you certainly could if you wanted to. The best place to plumb it in would be anywhere after the MAF, ideally just before the throttle body (to avoid puddling).

Originally Posted by congiiee

Do you guys offer the complete kit without the Ecutek cable and license for the people that already have that? If so what would the price be?

We discussed offering the complete system without the Ecutek cable and license, but came to the conclusion that would no longer be a complete system. So currently, the complete system will only be available with the Ecutek cable and license included.

[youcantseeme24]

Originally Posted by ssteer

Sure Brian, the direct injection part of the fuel mapping will be better atomized by a supercharger. Not. And at cruise, with very low boost pressure, if any at all, that'll rattle the air molecules all right.

Sorry, don't buy the better atomization argument at all. Sounds like someone's been watching too many infomercials for the Tornado fuel saver.

Who are you with your 5 posts on this forum and how in the world are you going to tell a guy who's job and passion is superchargers that hes full of it? Unless your designing these things and selling thousands of these kits then you should prolly leave your harsh talk to yourself. This guys simply being informative to people that ask and doesnt HAVE to post anything on this site.

[Dimman]

How does boost better atomize fuel that is not in the airstream?

80+ combined years of turbo systems, but zero with this port/direct fueling strategy.

Brian, has MPG increase at cruise been tested and proven on a FR-S/BRZ, or is that speculation based on a totally different car?

Still the attitude, and still no compressor map...

[sw20kosh]

Does anyone know what the choppyness is due to at the higher RPMS (in the dyno graphs). Is that a artifact of the dyno? Or is that ecu pulling timing?

I have seen this on other FI dynos.

[Coheed]

With boost, the higher air density and higher inlet temps help with fuel atomization.

Not rocket science. You can easily see this using a water injection setup, if you've ever experimented with it.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Great video teaser...

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Coheed

With boost, the higher air density and higher inlet temps help with fuel atomization.

Not rocket science. You can easily see this using a water injection setup, if you've ever experimented with it.

On port injection yes. On showerhead secondary injectors even more. But not on direct.

If he's telling us because his 2 valve port-injected Mustang picks up mpg with the SC at cruise, so the combination port-direct 4 valve FR-S should too, that is terrible science.

They either tested it for mpg or they didn't. If they didn't, they should just say they don't know.

[Unleashed]

@Brian@Vortech

Is the 2.5 bar map sensor needed to run the kit?

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by sw20kosh

Does anyone know what the choppyness is due to at the higher RPMS (in the dyno graphs). Is that a artifact of the dyno? Or is that ecu pulling timing?

I have seen this on other FI dynos.

There are many different ways to display the chart within each dyno software program. I believe you can adjust the choppyness of a run inside the program with a tab called "smoothing". It just looks like the guys didn't do that prior to providing it to me to edit into the teaser video.

Originally Posted by Dimman

On port injection yes. On showerhead secondary injectors even more. But not on direct.

If he's telling us because his 2 valve port-injected Mustang picks up mpg with the SC at cruise, so the combination port-direct 4 valve FR-S should too, that is terrible science.

They either tested it for mpg or they didn't. If they didn't, they should just say they don't know.

C'mon man...it's a 3 Valve port injected Mustang. Let's keep our facts straight here...

Have you considered engine pumping work?

Because I really don't want you to be angry at me for trying to help, I did go and speak to our lead design Engineer about this, and how the effects could be different on a direct and port injected vehicle. I was informed that my statement was not wholly correct, in that it was the better atomization that was solely responsible for aiding the engine accomplish increased fuel economy. The increased fuel economy is also due to better engine pumping work. The compressor spinning, even when not in positive boost pressure, allows the engine to not have to work as hard to accomplish the same work. So, even if my explanation was not spot on, the science is still there, and the potential for increase in mpg remains valid. You still get a gold star though. Good job.

I said I would post the compressor map as soon as I have it. You will have to forgive me though for asking why I should make that a priority when the only people asking for it are the same people that are arguing with every statement, and criticizing every post? I can save those people the trouble. As soon as I post the map, those same 1-2 people will jump all over it saying that (in their opinion) the compressor is completely wrong for one reason or another and that they know better than we do what should be in our kits and blah blah blah I am going to go buy something else. The critical statements show that those people were already going to buy something else. If those people believe that they are better suited to select a compressor for a given application than the company that designed, engineered, and built it and the entire system that it goes into, then they should definitely start their own supercharger company. Nevermind what I say - If respected tuners like Jeff Perrin and John Visconti are on this forum stating that they believe in our products, that they work well, and that they choose to personally sell and promote them...what does that show?

Originally Posted by Unleashed

@Brian@Vortech

Is the 2.5 bar map sensor needed to run the kit?

In the Ecutek software, there are lots of benefits and optional ways to take readings from the MAP sensor and improve the performance and all around drivability of a tune. So, in that sense, the MAP sensor is very important. However, it does not have to be a 2.5 bar sensor. It really just needs to be able to read higher than what the engine will actually be seeing. So, if you will never be seeing more than 14.7psi, a 2 bar MAP sensor could and should be just fine. By the same token, you could also use a 3 bar or 4 bar MAP sensor, but it would just be unnecessary unless you were running that amount of boost that would require it.

If you get right down to the base of the question, you actually could run the system without the MAP sensor. However, the car would throw MAP codes left right and center due to it seeing more than its capacity to read. You would need to turn that off in whatever tuning software you are using. The benefits of using the sensor far outweigh the cost though, especially in the actual tuning process...so I would advise against going without just to save a few bucks on a MAP sensor.

[Unleashed]

Originally Posted by Brian@Vortech

In the Ecutek software, there are lots of benefits and optional ways to take readings from the MAP sensor and improve the performance and all around drivability of a tune. So, in that sense, the MAP sensor is very important. However, it does not have to be a 2.5 bar sensor. It really just needs to be able to read higher than what the engine will actually be seeing. So, if you will never be seeing more than 14.7psi, a 2 bar MAP sensor could and should be just fine. By the same token, you could also use a 3 bar or 4 bar MAP sensor, but it would just be unnecessary unless you were running that amount of boost that would require it.

If you get right down to the base of the question, you actually could run the system without the MAP sensor. However, the car would throw MAP codes left right and center due to it seeing more than its capacity to read. You would need to turn that off in whatever tuning software you are using. The benefits of using the sensor far outweigh the cost though, especially in the actual tuning process...so I would advise against going without just to save a few bucks on a MAP sensor.

Awesome information. What MAP sensor would work? <--meaning brand/model/make etc.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by Unleashed

Awesome information. What MAP sensor would work? <--meaning brand/model/make etc.

If you want to use the 2.5 bar one that we will be including in our complete systems, it is our part number 5A002-061. MSRP is $248.95. In stock now.

[Unleashed]

Originally Posted by Brian@Vortech

If you want to use the 2.5 bar one that we will be including in our complete systems, it is our part number 5A002-061. MSRP is $248.95. In stock now.

$248 that is very steep. All other ones are priced around $115, why so high?