Questions and Discussion on Vortech Supercharging Systems

[Frostyman]

I wish I could hear the damn thing, but there's too much stupid music.

[SubieNate]

I think those asking about overdriving and using a wastegate are less worried about efficiency and more worried about producing some real down low torque.

I think it'd be awesome to design a CVT drive for a supercharger that would deliver the same response curve as the wastegate design but without any real efficiency loss. It would likely be extremely difficult to make one small enough though.

Here's a question. What kind of cruise MPG loss do you guys generally experience? One of the main draws of a turbo system is that being exhaust driven, at low load the turbo is barely doing anything and you can get as good or better gas mileage as an NA setup. Is there any way to minimize the MPG hit with your systems?

Thanks,
Nathan

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

Here's a question. What kind of cruise MPG loss do you guys generally experience? One of the main draws of a turbo system is that being exhaust driven, at low load the turbo is barely doing anything and you can get as good or better gas mileage as an NA setup. Is there any way to minimize the MPG hit with your systems?

Thanks,
Nathan

Loss? At cruise, you will actually gain MPG due to the better atomization of air/fuel. Of course, when you are in boost you'll be using more fuel. It all just depends on how heavy your foot is.

[ssteer]

Sure Brian, the direct injection part of the fuel mapping will be better atomized by a supercharger. Not. And at cruise, with very low boost pressure, if any at all, that'll rattle the air molecules all right.

Sorry, don't buy the better atomization argument at all. Sounds like someone's been watching too many infomercials for the Tornado fuel saver.

[rice_classic]

8200rpms?

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by ssteer

Sure Brian, the direct injection part of the fuel mapping will be better atomized by a supercharger. Not. And at cruise, with very low boost pressure, if any at all, that'll rattle the air molecules all right.

Sorry, don't buy the better atomization argument at all. Sounds like someone's been watching too many infomercials for the Tornado fuel saver.

Ooooh burn!

I guess over 23 years of factual data and 80+ years of combined turbomachinery experience hold no weight around here. My bad. I guess you must be right.

In all seriousness, while historically this is more frequently realized in truck applications (likely due to their having lower mpg to begin with), it is not smoke and mirrors, and is absolutely not false. The trick is keeping your foot out of the throttle long enough to realize the benefit. Granted, especially in the first few weeks/months of supercharger ownership the average individual will see a sizable decrease in fuel economy due to their new found boost in horsepower (pun intended). However, once you settle back into normal driving habits, it is not uncommon to see an increase in fuel economy when cruising on the highway and other sustained speed driving.

In my own personal daily driver, I used to have a 35 minute freeway commute where I was seeing around 22 average mpg pre-Supercharger, and saw roughly 24 average mpg after my Vortech install. Now of course, I had to go and throw all that away and then some when I put some taller gears in the car...but hey, that's the price you pay to go fast I guess.

[Tradewind]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

I think those asking about overdriving and using a wastegate are less worried about efficiency and more worried about producing some real down low torque.

I think it'd be awesome to design a CVT drive for a supercharger that would deliver the same response curve as the wastegate design but without any real efficiency loss. It would likely be extremely difficult to make one small enough though.

Here's a question. What kind of cruise MPG loss do you guys generally experience? One of the main draws of a turbo system is that being exhaust driven, at low load the turbo is barely doing anything and you can get as good or better gas mileage as an NA setup. Is there any way to minimize the MPG hit with your systems?

Thanks,
Nathan

Ever looked up the NuVinci drive for superchargers. If you twist Vortech's arm hard enough they might add it into their kit, then you get full boost from idle everytime!

[SubieNate]

Originally Posted by Tradewind

Ever looked up the NuVinci drive for superchargers. If you twist Vortech's arm hard enough they might add it into their kit, then you get full boost from idle everytime!

I was actually looking at that today. Procharger has a CVT setup as well but the NuVinci looks much more elegant. I'm curious what kind of drive efficiency it can get and what kind of weight penalty it carries.

@Brian@Vortech - can you speak to the advantages/disadvantages of a gear drive vs a traction drive a la Rotrex?

Nathan

[catharsis]

Screw all the m0ar torque guys. I love this kit for what it does. Gives the car a nice linear power band and produces power up top. It keeps true the character of the motor and the car.

[jdzumwalt]

Originally Posted by Tradewind

Ever looked up the NuVinci drive for superchargers. If you twist Vortech's arm hard enough they might add it into their kit, then you get full boost from idle everytime!

Good find seems way better than wastgating excess boost.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by SubieNate

@Brian@Vortech - can you speak to the advantages/disadvantages of a gear drive vs a traction drive a la Rotrex?

Nathan

I can Nathan.

I suppose the answer would be efficiency and durability.

A precision gear drive system, as would be found in a Vortech supercharger, is elegant in it's simplicity. It performs efficiently with little heat generation and requires minimum lubrication. The major downside is that high-speed gears of this level of precision are very costly.

Traction drives, other than their lubrication system, are also very simple. They rely on several rolling elements to transmit power through patches of a thin film of specialized oil. A traction drive system requires a great deal of pressure applied at the contact patch, usually between 1.0 and 2.0 GPa (150,000 to 300,000 psi). This means that there is material movement with associated heat generation. The Rotrex unit has twelve such patches and generates a substantial amount of heat that must be dealt with. These extreme pressures are to add drive capacity and minimize creep or slip that can generate even more heat and can cause spalling and failure.

[congiiee]

Hey Brian can you tell us what the fuel management parts will be that come with the complete kit?

[post_break]

Please tell me that reservoir will be sold separately.

[Brian@Vortech]

Originally Posted by ATL BRZ

@Brian@Vortech , Is this available for purchase separately from the whole SC kit? Many of us that are n/a want to replace the washer fluid tank to make room for brake ducting, oil cooler lines, etc.

Originally Posted by post_break

Please tell me that reservoir will be sold separately.

The washer reservoir assembly is (or will be) absolutely available separately guys! I don't have MSRP pricing for you just yet on it, but I can tell you that the Vortech part number for the assembly is 4TF155-021. Since we are scrambling to fulfill kit orders, it might be a couple days before I can tell you what that assembly will cost separately. I'll post it up as soon as I have that information available though.

Originally Posted by congiiee

Hey Brian can you tell us what the fuel management parts will be that come with the complete kit?

The complete system will be at a modest 6psi, so the factory fuel pump and injectors will be more than adequate for that level of performance. The included Ecutek cable, license, and Vortech tune will compliment the OEM fuel system and be completely safe and reliable.