Official: Toyota FT-1 Concept / First New Supra Prototype Spotted!

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by Jordanwolf

I wouldn't define it as brute force imo. It's simply a different engineering/design approach. I don't think it's fair to discount it's capabilities based on it's size.

It's an absolutely capable car, but it's virtually impossible to not see an improvement from shedding weight for any car, right? I don't think the Camaro has to be as big and as heavy as it is, and most of the reason that it is that way is to maintain some semblence of the big American muscle look. It's not necessary (see 4th generation), but it does tug on people's nostalgic heartstrings, and I'm sure they'll keep it up as long as it keeps people buying them....or when Ford finally ventures away from retro style completely with the Mustang, and then GM will react and play catch-up like they always do.

Anyway, like you said, they basically found a way to engineer around the current situation, and it definitely deserves kudos, especially when you look at things like the 1LE. But imagine if the Camaro could do what the top Lotus Evora currently does, putting down over 400hp and just barely scraping in under 3000 lbs. It couldn't help but be that much better of a performer in every way if it could get close to figures like that.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I'm figuring he means more about size than it being a floaty, sloppy mess. Camaros have learned to become sports cars and not just muscle cars ever since they came back (been a fan of them and Firebirds about as long as I've been alive), but they are pretty massive. They've gone on a diet, thank goodness, but they're still around 3700lbs at the heaviest. That's not light, but 450hp helps with that, and the vehicle just isn't small in size. If you could make the SS weigh as much as the 4-cylinder model does, it would be that much better handling, but still have a pretty big footprint.

When you have active suspension, or sorted suspension.... bigger tire contact patch, big brakes, big hp etc.... weight doesn't seem like as much of a factor. Obviously it is, but they've found workarounds and the Camaro is a fantastic drivers car.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

It's an absolutely capable car, but it's virtually impossible to not see an improvement from shedding weight for any car, right? I don't think the Camaro has to be as big and as heavy as it is, and most of the reason that it is that way is to maintain some semblence of the big American muscle look. It's not necessary (see 4th generation), but it does tug on people's nostalgic heartstrings, and I'm sure they'll keep it up as long as it keeps people buying them....or when Ford finally ventures away from retro style completely with the Mustang, and then GM will react and play catch-up like they always do.

What are you even talking about? The Camaro isn't big because GM wanted it to look like a boat, it's big because the chassis literally came from a luxury sedan. Obviously lighter is better, but that would also increase the price. The Camaro is a relatively attainable car with near supercar performance.

[Overdrive]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

When you have active suspension, or sorted suspension.... bigger tire contact patch, big brakes, big hp etc.... weight doesn't seem like as much of a factor. Obviously it is, but they've found workarounds and the Camaro is a fantastic drivers car.

I think we're both saying the same thing in different words, lol.

[TorontoNat]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

You refute the claim, but you didn't list any cars that you thought deserve the title more. The car is big, but the magnetic suspension is no gimmick. The Camaro outperforms cars on the track that cost three times as much. It's no slouch, that's for sure.

Fair. It's not. I'm not saying it's not top ten or even top three handles under 50K BUT As always "better handling" is very subjective. But for now and for relevance sake I will put up our cars as "better handling".

Too many factors... 4C is also around that price I think (could be wrong might be more) and tha'ts mid engine.. hard to beat. Also does that 50K allow used? I guaranty you a lotus would be up for that challenge.

let's not forget Miatas. (dont hurt me)

Either way.. I want to test drive one now.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Overdrive

I think we're both saying the same thing in different words, lol.

I was kind of agreeing with you / adding commentary.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by TorontoNat

Fair. It's not. I'm not saying it's not top ten or even top three handles under 50K BUT As always "better handling" is very subjective. But for now and for relevance sake I will put up our cars as "better handling".

Too many factors... 4C is also around that price I think (could be wrong might be more) and tha'ts mid engine.. hard to beat. Also does that 50K allow used? I guaranty you a lotus would be up for that challenge.

let's not forget Miatas. (dont hurt me)

Either way.. I want to test drive one now.

The 4C starts at 55k and it's going to be discontinued after this year. Only the spider version will be sold which starts out at 65k. I don't think compared new/used is very fair when it comes to bang for your buck. The miata seems like fun, but out of the box bodyroll seems to be a gripe for many.

[Horrid_Funk]

Originally Posted by Spuds

Our fake vents and intakes are "removable" too, doesn't make them not fake. And explain what you could possibly do with a door vent?

You could also easily cut holes in things to make vents and intakes. Does that mean every panel is just a vent waiting to be removed?

The way it's written makes it seem like it's intentionally made to be removed, and only specifically refers to one vent below the headlights. I'm assuming that's for brake ducting. My understanding is that the rest are only covered on this prototype car, that they'll be open on the production vehicle. Again, that's my understanding from reading that article. Maybe give it a read and see if I'm misunderstanding.

Door vent: 'Tada told us will help with brake cooling, and "maybe downforce too."'

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

The miata seems like fun, but out of the box bodyroll seems to be a gripe for many.

I haven't been in one for many years, so it's hard to compare to my 86 now, but I find it funny how every MX-5 review or comparison to the 86 calls it "good body roll."

I guess it's like "good cholesterol." Still, I don't want even good body roll in my sports coupe.

[krayzie]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRDuHzNgwXs[/ame]

[Horrid_Funk]

All the vents are functional, straight from the horse's mouth (Tada-San). Honestly, I was pretty turned off by the fake vents, I don't like car design that incorporates fake "function" (e.g. exhaust cutouts, vents, giant grilles). But they're not even fake! I'm definitely more excited about this car now. If they eventually make a manual trim and it's as fun to drive as the 86 I'm going to be hard pressed to find a reason to not get one.

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

If there is no manual...I guess I ll stick with my poor FRS >.<

There's nothing "poor" about your FR-S. If the replacement rvoll is foaming about appears I'll send him a bent shitcan lid to match his personality.

There is nothing wrong, at all, with them. Tada hit the nail he was aiming for dead-on. It's not his fault half the people that bought them seem to be buffoons.

[stevesnj]

Two different cars, two different price points and marketing targets. The 86 is the entry level car the Supra will be the next level.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k

N Information from Toyota employees has been widely inconsistent and illogical.

The engineer speaking about the car supplies illogical information?