Camber adjustment using strut body bolts

[Plumbus]

As an aside to my top hat thread, my HKS max iv SP front coilover struts come with a slightly eccentric (or slotted/oval) shaped top hole for the knuckle bolts. This means I can pivot the strut around the bottom bolt, which has a round hole, and tune camber this way.

The strut body is currently set away from the car, reducing negative camber and alleviating the angle of the top sway bar link and keeping it at a somewhat safe distance from the frame. My question is, assuming I don't want to max out camber using both methods, which position is best for the strut body using the slotted hole? Which would you max first?

[Racenut]

On mine, I wasn't going to get the negative camber I wanted unless I pushed it in at the hub. But I have a different brand of coilover so maybe that's not the case for you. Which way gives you the best range of adjustment with the top hats?

Also, I wish mine was as clean as yours lol. The only thing shiny under my wheel wells is the new parts.

[marco_mc22]

If you don’t need other adjustments and keep the top plate in stock SAI/camber position I would keep the knuckle outside, less camber but less positive scrub radius, anyway this should not hurt as much as SAI does, then you can also turn the top plate 45 degrees and adjust both camber and caster, this should balance better the increased SAI with better scrub.
On mine with both methods maxed out I’ve got - 3 degrees of camber and +7 of castor but with kw slotted hole and adjustable links.

[NoHaveMSG]

Is your wheel turned in that picture? That sway bar end link is at a ridiculous angle if it isn't.

This platform is not really sensitive to SAI changes, we have had this argument on the forum a lot over the years. Here is a thread detailing it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48107

[marco_mc22]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Is your wheel turned in that picture? That sway bar end link is at a ridiculous angle if it isn't.

This platform is not really sensitive to SAI changes, we have had this argument on the forum a lot over the years. Here is a thread detailing it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48107

Very nice topic, I honestly thought increased SAI has way more effect from other McPherson platforms, anyway increased Caster seems to be very beneficial so I think if you can achieve your camber spec with the plates turned is still better than the standard position right?

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by marco_mc22

Very nice topic, I honestly thought increased SAI has way more effect from other McPherson platforms, anyway increased Caster seems to be very beneficial so I think if you can achieve your camber spec with the plates turned is still better than the standard position right?

I did too for a long time too.

I don't know how much of an issue it is in the newer cars, but on the older cars like mine you can overheat the electric power steering. Increased caster is harder on the EPS. So you may want to experiment with it but with more caster you may run into a limit on what the EPS will handle.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by marco_mc22

Caster seems to be very beneficial so I think if you can achieve your camber spec with the plates turned is still better than the standard position right?

You can't rotate the camber plates 45 degrees, you have to rotate 60 degrees. Maybe not the end of the world, but ties your camber adjustment to caster adjustment where you might want them independent. These cars are usually a little asymmetric, so you might be stuck between having even caster left/right, or even camber, but not both...

I think big caster is hugely overrated. I've never been a fan of it since the days of driving my home-brew supension-modded 240Z unbeknownst to me put me at less than 3 degrees caster, and I loved it! Then I was stuck with more than 8 degrees with my 987.2 Cayman and I hated it...
I got the Raceseng cascam (caster/camber) plates, but found that they are designed so that the *minimum* end of the caster range is about stock or 6.5 degrees (though I'd have preferred 5.5). Which is fine w/ me except that one time the shop instead set them to *max* caster...

THe couple of things caster does for you *sound* good: More camber with steering angle, and some corner-jacking with steering angle acting to unload the outside front. Both these effects should give more front-end grip. But the balance will change depending on how fast the corner is, and you may get unwanted geometry change while sawing at the wheel at the limit. Because with more caster you have more changes in camber and weight-jacking with more steering angle.

If I *specifically* wanted more front-end bite at the lowest-speed corner and maybe less for the higher-speed corners, I *might* address that with more caster.

But personally I've never liked the feel of a lot of caster. Feels like artificial weighting to me, that corrupts feel at the steering wheel. My impression anyway...

[strat61caster]

Max bolts, fine tune with camber plates.
I like to keep the plates even so I can diy adjust as necessary away from an alignment rack so the bolts may not be fully maxed to make the camber the same l/r

[marco_mc22]

Originally Posted by ZDan

You can't rotate the camber plates 45 degrees, you have to rotate 60 degrees. Maybe not the end of the world, but ties your camber adjustment to caster adjustment where you might want them independent. These cars are usually a little asymmetric, so you might be stuck between having even caster left/right, or even camber, but not both...

I think big caster is hugely overrated. I've never been a fan of it since the days of driving my home-brew supension-modded 240Z unbeknownst to me put me at less than 3 degrees caster, and I loved it! Then I was stuck with more than 8 degrees with my 987.2 Cayman and I hated it...
I got the Raceseng cascam (caster/camber) plates, but found that they are designed so that the *minimum* end of the caster range is about stock or 6.5 degrees (though I'd have preferred 5.5). Which is fine w/ me except that one time the shop instead set them to *max* caster...

THe couple of things caster does for you *sound* good: More camber with steering angle, and some corner-jacking with steering angle acting to unload the outside front. Both these effects should give more front-end grip. But the balance will change depending on how fast the corner is, and you may get unwanted geometry change while sawing at the wheel at the limit. Because with more caster you have more changes in camber and weight-jacking with more steering angle.

If I *specifically* wanted more front-end bite at the lowest-speed corner and maybe less for the higher-speed corners, I *might* address that with more caster.

But personally I've never liked the feel of a lot of caster. Feels like artificial weighting to me, that corrupts feel at the steering wheel. My impression anyway...

Yeah I mean with the plates turned 60 degrees, had mine like that and as you said camber is a little bit uneven but nothing terrible. Really appreciate your feedback though, maybe I can try the opposite, hub maxed out outside and plates maxed out inside so, lot of SAI, way less scrub and I think a little higher roll center as well, what do you think?

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by marco_mc22

Yeah I mean with the plates turned 60 degrees, had mine like that and as you said camber is a little bit uneven but nothing terrible. Really appreciate your feedback though, maybe I can try the opposite, hub maxed out outside and plates maxed out inside so, lot of SAI, way less scrub and I think a little higher roll center as well, what do you think?

You could *try* that, or maybe try both extremes and see how they compare? I don't have camber bolts and couldn't get much from them anyway due to stock-diameter springs and 17x9s with 245s... So all my camber is from the plates. Probably more conservative to kinda split the difference? If I had a solid opinion on this I'd share it, but I don't!

[Plumbus]

Originally Posted by Racenut

On mine, I wasn't going to get the negative camber I wanted unless I pushed it in at the hub. But I have a different brand of coilover so maybe that's not the case for you. Which way gives you the best range of adjustment with the top hats?

Also, I wish mine was as clean as yours lol. The only thing shiny under my wheel wells is the new parts.

I believe the SP can achieve -3 on it's own. Slotted hole offers very little adjustment, but I'm still curious about the relation between the two methods.

Originally Posted by marco_mc22

If you don’t need other adjustments and keep the top plate in stock SAI/camber position I would keep the knuckle outside, less camber but less positive scrub radius, anyway this should not hurt as much as SAI does, then you can also turn the top plate 45 degrees and adjust both camber and caster, this should balance better the increased SAI with better scrub.
On mine with both methods maxed out I’ve got - 3 degrees of camber and +7 of castor but with kw slotted hole and adjustable links.

Not really interested in turning top plate around for caster adjustability. The slotted hole on the HKS is not super huge, you can probably get .5 degree adjustability at most. probably used for fine tuning more than maximizing camber I imagine.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Is your wheel turned in that picture? That sway bar end link is at a ridiculous angle if it isn't.

This platform is not really sensitive to SAI changes, we have had this argument on the forum a lot over the years. Here is a thread detailing it.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48107

Yes it is turned to the right. Not sure if the included end links will be good after I lower to 1.3" from stock...

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Max bolts, fine tune with camber plates.
I like to keep the plates even so I can diy adjust as necessary away from an alignment rack so the bolts may not be fully maxed to make the camber the same l/r

If I understand correctly, you told your alignment guy to set camber plates even and then fine tune with slotted hole so you can adjust the camber plates later without need for alignment? That sounds perfect, I may ask my alignment guy for the same. Hopefully the difference in SAI/scrub is not too bad between L/R with the slotted holes adjusted. I'm curious, why do you suggest the opposite of what you do though?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Plumbus

I'm curious, why do you suggest the opposite of what you do though?

I didn't. potay-toe potah-toe same effect, camber bolts are maxed evenly with camber plates even as opposed to camber bolts maxed unevenly with uneven camber plates to compensate.
sai/whatever, odds are your aftermarket suspension has looser tolerances then the oe knuckle/chassis and adjusting the bolts evenly should get you well within margin of error and the biggest change you'll see is uneven caster because the top mounts are kinda cheap.

[HaXx]

Dude I'm 50% certain you put your front coils on the wrong side. Your endlink should not look like that, be that slanted. Mine are perfectly vertical.

[Racenut]

Originally Posted by HaXx

Dude I'm 50% certain you put your front coils on the wrong side. Your endlink should not look like that, be that slanted. Mine are perfectly vertical.

Yeah it looks wrong but I think the steering is just turned to the right. Seems odd they would decide to tie the sway bar to a steering part, but that's what they did.