follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-31-2017, 08:48 PM   #15
Icecreamtruk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Drives: Track preped NA FRS
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 974
Thanks: 1,038
Thanked 670 Times in 400 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
How many lateral Gs and for how long do you guys sustain it to get fuel starvation? I havent hit it myself but I run in fairly small tracks, no long sweepers, just wondering for the future (there is one big track with a long sweeper in my calendar this year).
Icecreamtruk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 08:32 AM   #16
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by georgiafrsguy View Post
you def had fuel starvation at half tank with your setup for sure. welcome to the club. gonna have to keep full tank or get surge tank setup. couldn't run Atlanta motorsports park n/a with half a tank without starving
Yup, full tank from now on.
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 08:34 AM   #17
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk View Post
How many lateral Gs and for how long do you guys sustain it to get fuel starvation? I havent hit it myself but I run in fairly small tracks, no long sweepers, just wondering for the future (there is one big track with a long sweeper in my calendar this year).
I can't answer your question directly but I have seen over 1 G at different tracks.
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 09:43 AM   #18
Icecreamtruk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Drives: Track preped NA FRS
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 974
Thanks: 1,038
Thanked 670 Times in 400 Posts
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
I can't answer your question directly but I have seen over 1 G at different tracks.
Maybe its something to do with the banking in the corner? I see between 1.1 and 1.4g on every corner, and just last week I ran until the car had almost no fuel in it (3 laps past the fuel light) and no issues. So it seems the pickup for the fuel pump is enough for NA on normal gas but FI or E85 or both seem to have this issue. I guess you would have no option but to run a surge tank. Its a close to 100lbs of fuel you need to haul around otherwise
Icecreamtruk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 03:54 PM   #19
avishenoy1
Senior Member
 
avishenoy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: 2015 FR-S Release Series 1.0
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 185
Thanks: 228
Thanked 86 Times in 47 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
You are experiencing fuel starvation. This is a well known issue for left hand turns in boosted cars and there are a few threads with more details and solutions.

I have the Vortech supercharger and have the same issue on turn 3 at Palmer Motorsports Park. It is a sweeping left hander which I am going through at full throttle. If I am below 3/4 tank I see my revs start to drop at full throttle and my AFR goes full lean. This only started happening after I switched to 17x9 with 245 Direzzas and swapped out my sway bars. With these mods our cars are pulling significantly more lateral g's than the fuel tank was designed for.

The only solution I have heard of that has been documented to work reliably is a surge tank in the engine bay. This is a cumbersome and expensive modification that requires an additional (noisy) fuel pump and a tank that is vented to atmosphere (get used to smelling gasoline). And of course there is a greatly increased chance of fire when adding fuel lines in the engine bay.

I have heard mention of having a Holley Hydramat installed in the fuel tank, or an installing an additional in-tank floating fuel pump but have not seen anyone who has done either of these on the forum yet.

Until then I suggest you lift or risk destroying your engine.
avishenoy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 10:42 PM   #20
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by avishenoy1 View Post
You are experiencing fuel starvation. This is a well known issue for left hand turns in boosted cars and there are a few threads with more details and solutions.

I have the Vortech supercharger and have the same issue on turn 3 at Palmer Motorsports Park. It is a sweeping left hander which I am going through at full throttle. If I am below 3/4 tank I see my revs start to drop at full throttle and my AFR goes full lean. This only started happening after I switched to 17x9 with 245 Direzzas and swapped out my sway bars. With these mods our cars are pulling significantly more lateral g's than the fuel tank was designed for.

The only solution I have heard of that has been documented to work reliably is a surge tank in the engine bay. This is a cumbersome and expensive modification that requires an additional (noisy) fuel pump and a tank that is vented to atmosphere (get used to smelling gasoline). And of course there is a greatly increased chance of fire when adding fuel lines in the engine bay.

I have heard mention of having a Holley Hydramat installed in the fuel tank, or an installing an additional in-tank floating fuel pump but have not seen anyone who has done either of these on the forum yet.

Until then I suggest you lift or risk destroying your engine.
Thank you, now that I know what's happening I'll run a full tank and lift if necessary.
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2017, 10:45 PM   #21
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by avishenoy1 View Post
This only started happening after I switched to 17x9 with 245 Direzzas and swapped out my sway bars. With these mods our cars are pulling significantly more lateral g's than the fuel tank was designed for.
What sway bars did you go to and did they reduce your lap times?
And if I may ask, what spring rates are you using.
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2017, 01:25 AM   #22
avishenoy1
Senior Member
 
avishenoy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: 2015 FR-S Release Series 1.0
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 185
Thanks: 228
Thanked 86 Times in 47 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunatic View Post
What sway bars did you go to and did they reduce your lap times?
And if I may ask, what spring rates are you using.
Hotchkis front and Rear and yes, the sway bars definitely reduced body roll and gave me more grip in corners. Can't say exactly how much they reduced my lap times but with the front at stiff and the rear at medium soft plus new wheels and tires I was going through corners about 5-10mph faster than I ever had before. I was running RCE yellows which are 4.5k front and rear and Bilstein B8s, so not too aggressive.

I've since put the sways back on the softest setting to try to alleviate the fueling issue but still if I'm below half tank I get starvation in that one turn at full throttle so now I just ease off early and brake very late into the next corner.

I would assume that if you bias damping settings/tire pressure on one side of the car or go with softer sways to increase body roll it might make a difference but at the expense of speed.

@CSG Mike would know more about the issue and talked about it in the thread below

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33991
avishenoy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2017, 01:34 AM   #23
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by avishenoy1 View Post
Hotchkis front and Rear and yes, the sway bars definitely reduced body roll and gave me more grip in corners. Can't say exactly how much they reduced my lap times but with the front at stiff and the rear at medium soft plus new wheels and tires I was going through corners about 5-10mph faster than I ever had before. I was running RCE yellows which are 4.5k front and rear and Bilstein B8s, so not too aggressive.

I've since put the sways back on the softest setting to try to alleviate the fueling issue but still if I'm below half tank I get starvation in that one turn at full throttle so now I just ease off early and brake very late into the next corner.

I would assume that if you bias damping settings/tire pressure on one side of the car or go with softer sways to increase body roll it might make a difference but at the expense of speed.

@CSG Mike would know more about the issue and talked about it in the thread below

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33991
Thanks for the info. I'll read the thread you posted for me. Thank you.
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2017, 11:20 AM   #24
avishenoy1
Senior Member
 
avishenoy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: 2015 FR-S Release Series 1.0
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 185
Thanks: 228
Thanked 86 Times in 47 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Icecreamtruk View Post
How many lateral Gs and for how long do you guys sustain it to get fuel starvation? I havent hit it myself but I run in fairly small tracks, no long sweepers, just wondering for the future (there is one big track with a long sweeper in my calendar this year).
Can't say for sure but I would expect that anyone experiencing this issue is sustaining at least 1.1 lateral g's. On turn 3 at Palmer I'm probably sustaining that level of grip for 3-5 seconds.

245 or wider, 200TW or stickier, boost, a stiff suspension, and downforce will get you there. This chassis is incredibly well balanced.

Last edited by avishenoy1; 06-02-2017 at 11:37 AM.
avishenoy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2017, 12:00 PM   #25
avishenoy1
Senior Member
 
avishenoy1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Drives: 2015 FR-S Release Series 1.0
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 185
Thanks: 228
Thanked 86 Times in 47 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
This looks like it would help: http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pump-...T86-P1142.aspx

Definitely not a guarantee against starvation but looks like it would have much better pickup than the oem or a drop in pump.

This plus a surge tank would be the full fix for a high horsepower track monster.
avishenoy1 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to avishenoy1 For This Useful Post:
Icecreamtruk (06-02-2017)
Old 06-02-2017, 01:18 PM   #26
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by avishenoy1 View Post
This looks like it would help: http://www.radiumauto.com/Fuel-Pump-...T86-P1142.aspx

Definitely not a guarantee against starvation but looks like it would have much better pickup than the oem or a drop in pump.

This plus a surge tank would be the full fix for a high horsepower track monster.
Thank you, I'll look into that.
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2017, 01:34 PM   #27
Lunatic
Senior Member
 
Lunatic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Drives: 2015 Raven FRS
Location: Indio, CA. Just an Old Fart in a Automatic!.
Posts: 1,614
Thanks: 7
Thanked 1,055 Times in 488 Posts
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Here's the corner where I had the problem. Right after I hit the straight you can hear the engine quit revving and me short shifting.
https://www.facebook.com/steve.joneli?fref=ts
Lunatic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2017, 04:35 PM   #28
Jonsey
Senior Member
 
Jonsey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Drives: 2013 FR-S
Location: DFW
Posts: 272
Thanks: 369
Thanked 216 Times in 112 Posts
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Moto-East has a plug and play surge kit that is the best option on the market right now in my opinion.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=105934
__________________
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt." Mark Twain
Jonsey is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jonsey For This Useful Post:
DAEMANO (06-02-2017)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Left Hand turn fuel starvation on WOT Huehuecoyotl Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 105 08-05-2021 07:12 PM
High boost, e85, fuel starvation on a road course: What's everyone doing in 2015? Xero-Limit Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 6 06-16-2015 12:45 PM
Fuel Starvation issues? YAY OR NAY? track_warrior Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 23 10-22-2013 11:19 AM
Oil starvation in high loads jdcorbitt3 Engine, Exhaust, Transmission 7 06-01-2013 10:46 PM
Fuel Starvation feldy Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 1 06-09-2012 10:14 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:44 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2022 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.