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BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics All discussions about the first-gen Subaru BRZ coupe


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Old 08-19-2019, 10:28 AM   #99
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
KBB says my Cayman is worth $14,000 - yeah okay sure.
I will give you $1,450 for it. Cash.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:24 AM   #100
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I could be wrong in this case, but in general KBB value means NOTHING when it comes to low volume sports cars. Sure they're dead on for an Accord or Camry or (insert volume car that everyone makes), but when it comes to low volume unique configuration sports cars (i.e. not a Mustang, Camaro, Corvette) their values are way off. KBB says my Cayman is worth $14,000 - yeah okay sure.
Agreed, and I listened to a few podcasts on how they come up with this determination.

For lower-volume cars that don't have a lot of used data points yet, I have personally found the BRZ prices to highly fluctuate with time of year (like Miatas).

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I'm not really sure about the value proposition of this new tS. Feel like they should have just called it something else, some other special edition. The 2018 tS was seriously overpriced but at least it was further differentiated from a Limited with the Performance Pack. This new tS, barely seems much different.
The major problem I have with the re-introduction of the new tS is the lack of the rear wing.

While indivuduals may or may not like the wing, the simple fact was the wing was a 3k MSRP item. The tS-specific wheels are gone. There is a single colour with more models at that colour. Without providing an analog replacement, the car simply isn't as valuable.

Therefore, placing it back on the market with these changes and a market-value increase in price doesn't make sense. It is less-value for the same price which isn't any more valuable than the BRZ PP.

For myself, I love this car. It would be an excellent track or Champcar. However, for it to make sense my my personal garage of a 16 STi (25k) and 02 z06 (25k) for what I would use it for, the personal-value of these cars is much less than current market value -- used (17+ : ts - 28k, PP - 23k, Limited - 20k, Premium - 17k).

When these are ~15k for a PP on 17+, I will be biting... or if they add more HP in future models
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:57 AM   #101
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I could be wrong in this case, but in general KBB value means NOTHING when it comes to low volume sports cars. Sure they're dead on for an Accord or Camry or (insert volume car that everyone makes), but when it comes to low volume unique configuration sports cars (i.e. not a Mustang, Camaro, Corvette) their values are way off. KBB says my Cayman is worth $14,000 - yeah okay sure.
Case in point, the last kbb value listed for my AE86 GTS before it aged out of kbb was $800. At the time, a GTS in decent shape was untouchable for under $5k.
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Old 08-19-2019, 02:50 PM   #102
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Case in point, the last kbb value listed for my AE86 GTS before it aged out of kbb was $800. At the time, a GTS in decent shape was untouchable for under $5k.
KBB prices are based on data accumulated through documented used car sales and values provided at time of registering (in states where a value must be declared for tax purposes). In the case of the AE86 there were probably only a couple sold during the data collection period. If they were both rotted out hulks that went for under $800 then that would be the value that got set. As Wolf said there are just not enough of some car models sold on a regular basis to generate an average that is even remotely close to reality.
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Old 08-19-2019, 07:51 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post
I'm not really sure about the value proposition of this new tS. Feel like they should have just called it something else, some other special edition. The 2018 tS was seriously overpriced but at least it was further differentiated from a Limited with the Performance Pack. This new tS, barely seems much different.
How so? The 2020 is the exact same car as the 2018, all the same suspension and bracing minus the bodykit and wing, which to me makes it vastly improved.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:34 PM   #104
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How so? The 2020 is the exact same car as the 2018, all the same suspension and bracing minus the bodykit and wing, which to me makes it vastly improved.
I think he’s saying the 2020 tS is closer to a BRZ PP than a 18 BRZ tS.
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Old 08-19-2019, 09:37 PM   #105
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Case in point, the last kbb value listed for my AE86 GTS before it aged out of kbb was $800. At the time, a GTS in decent shape was untouchable for under $5k.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if a dealer offered you $1,000 for your AE86.

Then they would turn it around and sell it for 8k starting. The market to buy a clean AE86 is so small that they can’t risk offering you close to private sale prices.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:21 PM   #106
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I think he’s saying the 2020 tS is closer to a BRZ PP than a 18 BRZ tS.
And I'm asking how does one arrive at that conclusion when it isn't the case...
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:01 AM   #107
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And I'm asking how does one arrive at that conclusion when it isn't the case...
I guess if you had to quantify it.

The 2020 tS is missing $4k in aero pieces (wing, front lip, side skirts, etc).

2020 tS vs. 2020 PP
Replaced: dampers and springs, tires and rims
Adds: upper and lower bracing

Those replacements/additions don't come close to $4k, granted majority of it comes from the wing.

Aesthetically, the 2020 tS looks more like a 2020 PP for reasons stated above.

I guess one could still argue the 2020 tS is still the same as the 2018.
Doesn't really matter; they're all still slow, lol.
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Old 08-20-2019, 12:06 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by WolfpackS2k View Post

I'm not really sure about the value proposition of this new tS. Feel like they should have just called it something else, some other special edition. The 2018 tS was seriously overpriced but at least it was further differentiated from a Limited with the Performance Pack. This new tS, barely seems much different.
Dealers had a tough time selling the 18 tS after the initial wave of buyers.

I picked my tS up for 5k off sticker, well below invoice. Technically, the dealer probably lost money when they sold me the tS.
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Old 08-20-2019, 08:27 AM   #109
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Dealers had a tough time selling the 18 tS after the initial wave of buyers.

I picked my tS up for 5k off sticker, well below invoice. Technically, the dealer probably lost money when they sold me the tS.
They lost money on the car, but that doesn't matter anymore. Dealers now get the majority of their profit in incentives from manufacturers on the number of cars they sell each month.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:02 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
KBB prices are based on data accumulated through documented used car sales and values provided at time of registering (in states where a value must be declared for tax purposes). In the case of the AE86 there were probably only a couple sold during the data collection period. If they were both rotted out hulks that went for under $800 then that would be the value that got set. As Wolf said there are just not enough of some car models sold on a regular basis to generate an average that is even remotely close to reality.
I have to pay annual property tax on my vehicles. (required in NC, as stated above it varies by state). The county I live in values my Cayman, for tax purposes, at $12,000. You can believe I don't contest that LOL.

However when I take my car to the race track I insure it for $25,000.
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Old 08-20-2019, 11:38 AM   #111
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Dealers had a tough time selling the 18 tS after the initial wave of buyers.

I picked my tS up for 5k off sticker, well below invoice. Technically, the dealer probably lost money when they sold me the tS.
Depends on where people are. Some areas sold out right away and had to bring them in from other regions where they sold slower. It is impossible to make one sweeping statement about how they sold. Any northern dealer that got theirs in the fall had them sit there all winter because these things just don't sell when the snow is flying. Once spring hit then all bets were off.
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Old 08-20-2019, 05:39 PM   #112
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I wonder why they removed the wing. That was the best thing about the tS. I want one for my car if it didnt cost $3500 (last time I checked)
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