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FR-S / BRZ vs.... Area to discuss the FR-S/BRZ against its competitors [NO STREET RACING]


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Old 03-02-2020, 10:49 AM   #29
porsche550s
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I just sold my 987.2 Cayman because for me the BRZ is a more fun car to drive on the street. I drove them both on the street and track for a year to decide which I would keep, and BRZ won.
I agree the BRZ is incredible on the track, but I must chalk it down to different driving styles because after doing an estimated 40-50 autocrosses over 4 years and around 12 track days, I have to say I took my Cayman out for the first time for an autocross when I briefly had both and completely blew my time away. cayman was on average 1.5-2 seconds faster on a 54-55 second autocross course (both on the same tire and very similar sizes). It was a hard choice to make because they both are incredible cars in the handling department and the BRZ is more "fun" because its much easier to break loose when you want to, but it came down to everyday comfort on the road as I drive them as a my daily driver. To each there own and as far as I'm concerned as long as the car you're driving makes you happy and leaves with a smile then its the perfect car for you.
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Old 03-02-2020, 11:31 AM   #30
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I agree the BRZ is incredible on the track, but I must chalk it down to different driving styles because after doing an estimated 40-50 autocrosses over 4 years and around 12 track days, I have to say I took my Cayman out for the first time for an autocross when I briefly had both and completely blew my time away. cayman was on average 1.5-2 seconds faster on a 54-55 second autocross course (both on the same tire and very similar sizes).
To be clear I was also much faster in the Cayman at most tracks, usually on the order of 2-3 seconds. At Thompson it was pretty close though... At the track the Cayman's power/weight and ability to put power down out of slow corners generally make it quite a bit faster. For autoX, the BRZ 55/45 weight distribution would be an even bigger disadvantage.

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It was a hard choice to make because they both are incredible cars in the handling department and the BRZ is more "fun" because its much easier to break loose when you want to, but it came down to everyday comfort on the road as I drive them as a my daily driver. To each there own and as far as I'm concerned as long as the car you're driving makes you happy and leaves with a smile then its the perfect car for you.
I (almost) never kick the back end loose, I just find the steering a lot more responsive in the BRZ, and it feels lighter, so more fun. Not quite as comfortable as the Porsche "sport" seats but not bad. Porsche definitely a better long road trip car.
Both are great cars, 2 of my favorite modern cars. Would've liked to keep both!

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Old 03-02-2020, 11:43 AM   #31
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I just sold my 987.2 Cayman because for me the BRZ is a more fun car to drive on the street. I drove them both on the street and track for a year to decide which I would keep, and BRZ won. The Cayman's steering is too slow for me, and I'm really not a fan of the nonlinear ratio. I've never been a fan of big caster and the Porsche has a ton, makes the steering unnecessarily heavy which doesn't equate to "feel" for me. The BRZ is a lot more engaging and fun in real-world driving. At the track they're both great (with mods for front camber), and of course the Cayman is much faster at most tracks, though the BRZ was within 4 tenths at Thompson, on inferior tires...
Dang, and here I’m looking at my BRZ saying “this is nice, but what next?” And that answer to me has been “cayman”. Specifically waiting I think nice 987.2s come down to ~23-25. I love the driving feel of the twins, but I’d like some more power and to spend maybe a little less time unsh*tboxing the interior.

Maybe the answer is just: a newer BRZ, FI, supporting mods, and a reworked interior.

Or spend >$7,000 in FI mods on my 100k mile 2013 and have a supercharger worth more than my car, lol. Shame I realize how dumb that idea is financially. It would be perfect.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by MaverickMonk View Post
Dang, and here I’m looking at my BRZ saying “this is nice, but what next?” And that answer to me has been “cayman”. Specifically waiting I think nice 987.2s come down to ~23-25. I love the driving feel of the twins, but I’d like some more power and to spend maybe a little less time unsh*tboxing the interior.

Maybe the answer is just: a newer BRZ, FI, supporting mods, and a reworked interior.

Or spend >$7,000 in FI mods on my 100k mile 2013 and have a supercharger worth more than my car, lol. Shame I realize how dumb that idea is financially. It would be perfect.
I had a supercharged BRZ and now, for the last 6 years, have had a Cayman S. There's no comparison. Cayman is better in almost every way. Also I bolded part of your comment above. Because...987.2 Cayman S's are never going to be that low in price. Very few were made, and the 987 Cayman market has already bottomed out. Only way one is gonna be found for low 20s is if it has a salvage title or high mileage.
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Old 03-02-2020, 01:38 PM   #33
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I had a supercharged BRZ and now, for the last 6 years, have had a Cayman S. There's no comparison. Cayman is better in almost every way. Also I bolded part of your comment above. Because...987.2 Cayman S's are never going to be that low in price. Very few were made, and the 987 Cayman market has already bottomed out. Only way one is gonna be found for low 20s is if it has a salvage title or high mileage.
Thanks for the info. Unfortunate. I can’t imagine ever being comfortable spending 30k or more on a car (I’m the kind of risk averse pencil pushing nerd that hates financing and spending too much). On top of that, getting an even older Porsche as an only car and daily driver seems foolish without a garage to fix it in.

I guess the answer is this is as good as it gets unless you’re willing to spend more money. Bollocks.
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Old 03-02-2020, 02:24 PM   #34
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Dang, and here I’m looking at my BRZ saying “this is nice, but what next?” And that answer to me has been “cayman”. Specifically waiting I think nice 987.2s come down to ~23-25.
23-25 will get you a nice *non-S* 987.2 Cayman. The good news is with the 987.2 you get the good brakes and 6-speed trans like the S, you just miss out on displacement and power.

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I love the driving feel of the twins, but I’d like some more power and to spend maybe a little less time unsh*tboxing the interior.
Honestly, the BRZ Limited interior never bothered me, I have more quibbles about the 987's ergos. Specifically the switchgear seems designed to be awkward. Window switches are weirdly oriented and pivot points such that your finger has next to no mechanical advantage. BRZ switchgear has better feel and generally better-located and more intuitive and to use.

The shift knob is a low point for the 987. It looks and feels cheap, the leather looks and feels like plastic, and the metal (if it is metal?) part also looks and feels like plastic. It just feels bleh... I hated it from day one and replaced mine with a Black Forest Labs perforated leather/aluminum one which I loved.

987 steering wheel is, to me, way too big in diameter, and it doesn't really look that great either. There was a better-looking smaller-diameter one but it's rare to see in a Cayman and way overpriced if you want to retrofit. 987 wheel doesn't adjust far down or aft enough for me either, whereas I can put the BRZ wheel right where I want it.

Cayman sport seats *are* better and more comfortable, and have infinite recline positionability (electric) and very fine mechanical fore/aft adjustability. I like the BRZ seats a lot, but Porsche sport seats are about as good as it gets for street/track compromise and comfort.


Regarding supercharging a BRZ, that will exacerbate a big shortcoming it has vs. Cayman. 55/45 weight distribution is not going to be able to put power down anything like as well as 45F/55R....
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Old 03-02-2020, 04:00 PM   #35
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23-25 will get you a nice *non-S* 987.2 Cayman. The good news is with the 987.2 you get the good brakes and 6-speed trans like the S, you just miss out on displacement and power.

Honestly, the BRZ Limited interior never bothered me, I have more quibbles about the 987's ergos. Specifically the switchgear seems designed to be awkward. Window switches are weirdly oriented and pivot points such that your finger has next to no mechanical advantage. BRZ switchgear has better feel and generally better-located and more intuitive and to use.

The shift knob is a low point for the 987. It looks and feels cheap, the leather looks and feels like plastic, and the metal (if it is metal?) part also looks and feels like plastic. It just feels bleh... I hated it from day one and replaced mine with a Black Forest Labs perforated leather/aluminum one which I loved.

987 steering wheel is, to me, way too big in diameter, and it doesn't really look that great either. There was a better-looking smaller-diameter one but it's rare to see in a Cayman and way overpriced if you want to retrofit. 987 wheel doesn't adjust far down or aft enough for me either, whereas I can put the BRZ wheel right where I want it.

Cayman sport seats *are* better and more comfortable, and have infinite recline positionability (electric) and very fine mechanical fore/aft adjustability. I like the BRZ seats a lot, but Porsche sport seats are about as good as it gets for street/track compromise and comfort.


Regarding supercharging a BRZ, that will exacerbate a big shortcoming it has vs. Cayman. 55/45 weight distribution is not going to be able to put power down anything like as well as 45F/55R....
The ergos on the BRZ are fine (although I wish the pedal box was a bit farther back), it’s the quality. I’ve spent probably 30hrs fixing up the interior, stopping squeaks, upholstering touchpoints/swapping in trim from other packages, and reenforcing the door cards so they don’t flex 3” every time I try to reposition myself. Also even though I’ve cut out 3db with some
Strategically placed sound deadening, it’s still loud at highway speeds. Loud enough that it makes long drives more stressful. But it’s almost there. Just need a head unit that doesn’t suck and I think I’ll be satisfied.

The biggest thing is I wish it had more power, but I don’t have the stones to turn my high mileage daily into that kind of a project. It’s one thing to swap a junkyard motor in over a few weekends,‘it’s another to have to pay a speed shop to do it for you because you need to get to work Monday and don’t have a garage, hah
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Old 03-02-2020, 07:01 PM   #36
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The ergos on the BRZ are fine (although I wish the pedal box was a bit farther back), it’s the quality. I’ve spent probably 30hrs fixing up the interior, stopping squeaks, upholstering touchpoints/swapping in trim from other packages, and reenforcing the door cards so they don’t flex 3” every time I try to reposition myself.
I'm right at 40k miles and haven't had these issues, interior is holding up well and no squeaks/rattles or other annoyances.

Quote:
Also even though I’ve cut out 3db with some
Strategically placed sound deadening, it’s still loud at highway speeds. Loud enough that it makes long drives more stressful. But it’s almost there. Just need a head unit that doesn’t suck and I think I’ll be satisfied.
Porsche is a much better highway road-trip ride, but BRZ was a huge improvement in noise from the S2000 I daily-drove before!
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Old 03-03-2020, 03:20 AM   #37
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Dang, and here I’m looking at my BRZ saying “this is nice, but what next?” And that answer to me has been “cayman”. Specifically waiting I think nice 987.2s come down to ~23-25. I love the driving feel of the twins, but I’d like some more power and to spend maybe a little less time unsh*tboxing the interior.

Maybe the answer is just: a newer BRZ, FI, supporting mods, and a reworked interior.

Or spend >$7,000 in FI mods on my 100k mile 2013 and have a supercharger worth more than my car, lol. Shame I realize how dumb that idea is financially. It would be perfect.
If you haven't tried a 987.2 Cayman S or Boxster S, you really ought to give it a shot. I had a 2010 Boxster S and it was of the best rounded cars I've ever owned.

That said, similar to @ZDan, I ultimately chose my FR-S over my Boxster S. The FR-S (especially with a handful of mods) has a certain playfulness whereas the Boxster S felt a bit heavier and more serious. But if your plan is to add FI to your FR-S, I think you'd be better off going with a 987.2 S to begin with.
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