Stunt driving in Ontario crackdown

[wbradley]

I was charged with stunt driving yesterday in York Region and my case is hardly blatant. In fact, perhaps due to the Covid19 crackdown some police might be misusing their power. Normally I'd have no sympathy for anyone accused of stunt driving since I thought there was no doubt when a person is stunt driving, that it is blatant. This was a case of launching in front of a cop, which I will argue does not constitute stunt driving.

Stunt driving in Ontario is defined as 50 or more kph over posted limit, deliberate burnout, donut or drifting on public roads. Also, having a passenger in the trunk.

TL;DR Cop charged me with stunt driving when he witnessed me fishtail literally for a second under quick acceleration.

Here is the incident:

I was turning east on to Hwy#7 from my neighborhood and sped up to make the light to make the turn as I approached. As I exited the corner and headed east I accelerated a bit too hard causing my FR-S (supercharged, Ohlins, staggered etc) to lose rear traction and kicked right momentarily before the traction control kicked in within a second. The rear end swung slightly right literally for a second. We all know unless you do the pedal dance you couldn't sustain a drift or burnout even if you wanted to. Anyway I drove on and accelerated out of the traction break (nannies kill the throttle for a second), speeding, but not more than 30kph over the limit tops and for a very short duration. Maybe the 12C outdoor temps were affecting the tires slightly. What I didn't know is there was a cop stopped at the light facing east. Didn't know for several blocks that he was following me after the incident actually, he probably wanted to try and clock me afterward except I wasn't much above the limit.

Officer pulls me over, after following me quite a distance to the ramp as I was now exiting at the next main street. I commented that I could see he was a sergeant, and he replied back, "Staff sergeant". Young guy. He said for what I did he could charge me with stunt driving if he wanted. He probably would have given me a serious warning and that's it and no ticket. Being somewhat familiar with the stunt driving problems in Ontario, I commented that what I did was not stunt driving under the definition. Of course he asked me if I knew that definition. He also said that if I deliberately broke traction at all 4 wheels (ie: induce drift) that is stunt driving. But I didn't. My car is set up for traction, not drift. It was wholly unintentional, momentary and not a drift, but a short duration tail slip followed by traction control kicking in. I know I shouldn't have rebutted now, politely or otherwise. He called backup, 2 cruisers? Why? I was not belligerent. One officer asked if I will consent to being cuffed! I said no and they didn't. Was this a training session for the younger officers? I hope they're not all impounding people for what I did, that's persecution.

Here is Ontario's description of what constitutes stunt driving:
https://www.ontario.ca/laws/regulation/070455

Obviously I didn't see a police cruiser nearby, but regardless I believe the accusation against me is grossly exaggerated, perhaps since he couldn't clock me speeding and since I obviously was for a time, the cop decided to exercise his power inappropriately. I guess he just didn't feel he wanted to let me go especially since I was confident and not fearful. I wasn't reckless and didn't lose control of the car or weave or jeopardize cars nearby. I didn't deliberately lose traction! It's a highway and I was driving in a straight line. It's not illegal to accelerate fast if not causing danger. Seriously, I wouldn't drift my car and never will. FR-S getting stereotyped by a cop who said he's into cars and also asked me to put my phone in my pocket in case I'm recording while he discusses what constitutes stunt driving and I am insisting I wasn't sliding 4 wheels. Believe me, I do know a drift when I see one, apparently this guy doesn't.

So, I will have my day in court, be without my license for 7 days as well as my car and pay approximately $1000 to reinstate license and get car from impound. I get punished even if not convicted as per the cop's accusation. If convicted the fines are $2,000-$10,000 and up to 2 year license suspension and 6 months prison, although it isn't criminal. It destroys your insurance (doubles it). I hope they require clear evidence (video showing me acting as claimed) in order to get a conviction, since I know 100% for sure I did not do as the officer stated and this is a very serious accusation that would hugely impact my life if convicted. I drive a car known for drifting, but mine isn't for that at all, it's just surprisingly fast, so the policeman decided to wield (read that; misuse) his power. Sure I was speeding and accelerated quickly, but I didn't recklessly burnout, drift, donut or exceed the limit by 50kph. Moreover I did not have a passenger in the trunk (also stunt driving).

We will see if justice prevails, in which case I'm ONLY out $1000 and a lot of time. Almost makes me wish I was charged with speeding, since that's what actually happened, but then he'd really have no evidence to present.

At this point despite my aggressive driving, I feel angry not remorseful since I am wrongly accused. This young staff sergeant abused his power with me. I couldn't afford the tires to drift even I wanted to, which I don't. That is a stunt, for show. I'm more for go.

The video below is a clear cut example of stunt driving. As is driving 151 in a 100 zone, as is driving like Ken Block or Ken Gushi on the street. Incidentally, I heard the driver was let go in this case, not sure why. Maybe because it was an Ecoboost.

Wish me luck (or condemn me) based on the statements above, which I swear to be truthful.

[Kaotic Lazagna]

I suggest investing in a 2-channel dash cam for future incidents, be it cops or someone hitting you and trying to blame you for it.

[FLIPDADY]

That really sucks that all of us car enthusiasts have to look over our shoulders nowadays throughout Ontario. Local police forces seem to be adopting a zero tolerance policy on anything modified lately.

Just yesterday I was out in Halton Region passing through on my way to Niagara. An unmarked Halton police cruiser followed me the entire duration of my visit. I just wanted to grab a coffee from the McDonald's. I've already seen all the Twitter posts from Halton Police officers pulling over modified cars and going to town on charges.

Thank God my twin is relatively stock except the suspension. I had just swapped out my catback last week back to stock. The only thing they could have got me on was my license plate sticker which expired this past May. But I don't think they're writing people up yet due to Covid.

I ended up hitting the Mcdonald's drive thru while they waited for me to leave the lot. I was driving speed limit the entire time and as I approached the QEW exit I glanced in the rear view to see the cop pull a u-turn.

So watch out everyone throughout the province don't get caught slipping.

Sent from my LM-G900 using Tapatalk

[Tcoat]

Your only argument would be that there was no "intent" to lose traction.
And for God sake don't go into court and say "I've been opening the car up at the same place for 8.5 years"

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Your only argument would be that there was no "intent" to lose traction.
And for God sake don't go into court and say "I've been opening the car up at the same place for 8.5 years"

In fact, I would probably edit that out right now lol.

Also I'm fairly sure it's not gonna stick in court.

[RToyo86]

I would lawyer up to be safe. Seems like you have a case on your hands to have it thrown out or reduced.

Who knows when you will actually see a court with Covid. I had a court date for a minor speeding ticket from Sept/2019 that was set for sept/2020. It was bumped and haven't recieved the new date yet.

Police are going ham on speeders this year. With less traffic excessive speeding got worse, so they seem set on not giving any breaks.

[RFB]

Welcome to Turdo's new world !

It seems all the tail light chasers have been informed to speed up the cash cow with tickets to pay for all the free COVID money going out.

Lawyer up, use a traffic expert. The stunting law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL .
It unfortunately needs supreme court challenges in at least 2 provinces before the crown attorneys will stop trying to convict stunt laws.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Kaotic Lazagna

I suggest investing in a 2-channel dash cam for future incidents, be it cops or someone hitting you and trying to blame you for it.

I have a front facing one and he took it for evidence. I am 100% sure it wasn't working anyway unfortunately, since it might have been the best defense.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Your only argument would be that there was no "intent" to lose traction.
And for God sake don't go into court and say "I've been opening the car up at the same place for 8.5 years

Thanks, good advice. My point was I didn't expect the back to break loose as it did. It was intentional to accelerate quick, but it wasn't to break traction which it appears the cop's case will be based on. I have staggered Pilot Sports in the back, normally very grippy and pretty expensive for people that deliberately induce wheel spin. I will try to distill my statement to the minimum. You are correct that is the only point the justice will need to hear. No need to recount every detail with the courts, but I wrote everything down for reference if needed.

I will decide whether I will need legal council after attending the summons in Feb and seeing the officer's evidence. I wonder if his word is sufficient without video, in case he has no video or the quality is poor. With a huge backlog the prosecutor might pick and choose the cases to pursue or drop. Either way there is no sustained drift and he can't produce video if it never happened. You guys know traction control kicks in very quick it's virtually impossible to hold a drift unless you disconnect all the nannies on this car.

[Stephen W.]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Your only argument would be that there was no "intent" to lose traction.
And for God sake don't go into court and say "I've been opening the car up at the same place for 8.5 years"

Tcoat's is correct. Quote from your link


2. Driving a motor vehicle in a manner that indicates an intention to cause some or all of its tires to lose traction with the surface of the highway while turning.

However, the cop has already won as he's got your car and license for 7 days and knows you'll be at least a grand out of pocket.


I was falsely charged with careless driving over 4 decades ago. My lawyer got it tossed out. Better yet, the officer got a good reaming by the Justice for wasting the courts time. Afterwards my lawyer made a comment to the officer outside the court room about thinking twice before laying false charges. He (and those around him) laughed out loud. He replied, why? I won. I get paid for spending a day in court and not having to deal with assholes like your client (me). Plus, even though the charge was tossed I know he's out of pocket a days pay, traveling expenses and your fees, which I know are not cheap.



It's a shame to learn that they still breed 'em like that today.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I have a front facing one and he took it for evidence. I am 100% sure it wasn't working anyway unfortunately, since it might have been the best defense.



Thanks, good advice. My point was I didn't expect the back to break loose as it did. It was intentional to accelerate quick, but it wasn't to break traction which it appears the cop's case will be based on. I have staggered Pilot Sports in the back, normally very grippy and pretty expensive for people that deliberately induce wheel spin. I will try to distill my statement to the minimum. You are correct that is the only point the justice will need to hear. No need to recount every detail with the courts, but I wrote everything down for reference if needed.

I will decide whether I will need legal council after attending the summons in Feb and seeing the officer's evidence. His video might be terrible and it could also be dismissed without trial, we'll see. Apparently they are really piling up the backlogged cases these days so perhaps they will drop weaker cases and pursue the stronger ones.

Print off the weather summary from enviro Canada for the date and time. Use that to show that the tires may have been a bit firmer and more susceptible to spin.
In all fairness to the cop he had no idea if you intended to break traction but it could easily appear that was the case if you accelerated that quickly.

[wbradley]

⁹^^^
I can get that info printed for sure. It says ~ 13C that time and closest station. Another good suggestion. It might have been a bit damp too..

I feel slighty reassured when reading defense sites and seeing this:


Perhaps you were you charged for causing your tires to lose traction or “drifting” around a corner. The prosecutor will need to convince the Judge or Justice of the Peace that there was some degree of intent. This can be very difficult to do when the standard of proof is “beyond a reasonable doubt”.

Pretty sure I spun right after turning the corner (HKS supercharger). That is not inducing drift, it's power in a straight line kicking the rear out

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by RFB

Welcome to Turdo's new world !

It seems all the tail light chasers have been informed to speed up the cash cow with tickets to pay for all the free COVID money going out.

Lawyer up, use a traffic expert. The stunting law is UNCONSTITUTIONAL .
It unfortunately needs supreme court challenges in at least 2 provinces before the crown attorneys will stop trying to convict stunt laws.

You do realize the federal government doesn't control provincial traffic offences at all, right? The stunt driving law is a provincial law, not federal.

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by wbradley

He said for what I did he could charge me with stunt driving if he wanted. He probably would have given me a serious warning and that's it and no ticket. Being somewhat familiar with the stunt driving problems in Ontario, I commented that what I did was not stunt driving under the definition.

This is 100% the reason you got the end result that you did. Don't ever argue with the cop, or correct them, at the scene. All you do is piss them off, and end up with more tickets thrown at you.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by wparsons

You do realize the federal government doesn't control provincial traffic offences at all, right? The stunt driving law is a provincial law, not federal.

Just ignore him. He babbles a lot of meaningless anarchy crap.