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BRZ Second-Gen (2022+) -- General Topics General topics for the second-gen BRZ


View Poll Results: How would you rate the design of the 2nd gen? 1 lowest & 5 highest
1 19 7.20%
2 25 9.47%
3 62 23.48%
4 104 39.39%
5 54 20.45%
Voters: 264. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-19-2020, 01:12 PM   #407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
Well, like I said in another post, if the internals are strengthened to match the displacement then potential will likely go from the 350hp to 400hp and maybe higher. If the transmission is slightly stronger then the combination of the extra strength, extra potential on stock internals and extra performance from more low end torque and faster turbo spooling means this swap could be cheaper and better than paying for a built motor. For gen 2 owners, this means hitting a horsepower figure that is very respectable, approaching the limits of traction for many gears and reduces the substantial cost that comes from wanting to break the 350-400whp ceiling. For gen 1 owners who blew a motor or want to swap over building a motor, this should be an attractive option.
You do have to consider the increased compression ratio, though, making forced induction even trickier on the platform.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:13 PM   #408
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Good:
Looks, refreshed design, follows the original concept
Weight, not heavier than the 1st gen
Size, dimensions are almost the same
Handling should be as good or better than 1st gen
Instrument panel, I like the full digital cluster

Bad:
Front dash is too high and bulky, no pocket for storage below A/C controls
People will still be complaining about lack of power with 228 HP
Reduced redline to 7000 rpm
13.5 compression will be a disadvantage for FI kits . Reducing compression might be necessary to reach 300 HP which is costly

I am probably keeping my '14 FRS
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:15 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by Dzmitry View Post
No. All I did was take the curve of the new BRZ and put it up against a curve of the old BRZ. I am not shooting for apples to apples here, just a general idea. I used the peak power numbers of each car and plotted it as so. The accuracy of the curves is all that can change, but nothing drastically. If Subaru is showing a fairly accurate power curve on their 2022 BRZ cluster, then it shouldn't be very far fetched. Don't forget peak torque is 184 at 3700 RPM. Peak torque is 156 at 6700 on the BRZ. At the lowest part of the dip, it is about 135 lb-ft. This lowest region is right around the same region that the new one peaks at. That is about 50 lb-ft of torque difference. Again, this is very generalized and not super accurate; but it's just a rough estimate, and should be a pretty good one.

Again, in case I am not making myself clear, I am not comparing dyno's. I am just comparing one general curve to the other and overlaying them based on their peak numbers. Keep in mind, too, the gap only looks so severe because of how stretched the graph is. I could have stretched it much less, and the gap would be much smaller. I just wanted to stretch it to better see specific values.
Maybe I am totally missing what you are trying to show but your Gen one torque and HP are crossing at way too low of RPMs and none of your numbers match the published ones from the info I posted.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:16 PM   #410
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We can also use the K20 vs K24 for general comparisons. The bumps in the hp/tq look fairly similar between a TSX and RSX as the 2nd and 1st gen. I'm sure the difference in power potential will be similar too. We see this in other platforms too like the 1JZ vs 2JZ. There is no replacement for displacement.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:17 PM   #411
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Great. Now it's drooling licorice goo from the corners of it's mouth.

Stupid sticky kids.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:21 PM   #412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrg666 View Post
Good:
Looks, refreshed design, follows the original concept
Weight, not heavier than the 1st gen
Size, dimensions are almost the same
Handling should be as good or better than 1st gen
Instrument panel, I like the full digital cluster

Bad:
Front dash is too high and bulky, no pocket for storage below A/C controls
People will still be complaining about lack of power with 228 HP
Reduced redline to 7000 rpm
13.5 compression will be a disadvantage for FI kits . Reducing compression might be necessary to reach 300 HP which is costly

I am probably keeping my '14 FRS
People actually use that thing? I guess if it doesn't have the push-to-start button. But with that button occupying half the compartment there's barely enough space for some random coins.
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It sounds to me like the delicate, metallic sounds of piston skirts slapping against the cylinder walls
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Now, if it was three feet long and you were using all that leverage
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:23 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dzmitry View Post
You do have to consider the increased compression ratio, though, making forced induction even trickier on the platform.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrg666 View Post
Good:
Looks, refreshed design, follows the original concept
Weight, not heavier than the 1st gen
Size, dimensions are almost the same
Handling should be as good or better than 1st gen
Instrument panel, I like the full digital cluster

Bad:
Front dash is too high and bulky, no pocket for storage below A/C controls
People will still be complaining about lack of power with 228 HP
Reduced redline to 7000 rpm
13.5 compression will be a disadvantage for FI kits . Reducing compression might be necessary to reach 300 HP which is costly

I am probably keeping my '14 FRS
It makes FI an issue for anyone not using e85. Power potential without E85 was already limited at 12.5:1, but there is already more power on board because of the displacement, so maybe FI on pump gas will have more modest gains, but on E85, NA gains will be greater, and on FI, the tuners will likely hit the limits of the internals before they hit the limits due to knock. In fact, I don't believe I am aware of the limits on E85 at 12.5:1; I know people have pushed the car to over 600whp on built internals. If 13.5:1 has a limit on E85 then again I am sure it exceeds the strength of the stock internals and is outside of most people's needs, but the 13.5:1 will benefit many people who just want E85 and headers, which far exceeds those with FI, which far exceeds people with FI going for big power.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:25 PM   #414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
It makes FI an issue for anyone not using e85. Power potential without E85 was already limited at 12.5:1, but there is already more power on board because of the displacement, so maybe FI on pump gas will have more modest gains, but on E85, NA gains will be greater, and on FI, the tuners will likely hit the limits of the internals before they hit the limits due to knock. In fact, I don't believe I am aware of the limits on E85 at 12.5:1; I know people have pushed the car to over 600whp on built internals.
The question isn't how much but for how long
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:25 PM   #415
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Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Maybe I am totally missing what you are trying to show but your Gen one torque and HP are crossing at way too low of RPMs and none of your numbers match the published ones from the info I posted.
The curves both cross at 5252 RPM. Won't discuss why as I am sure you and others already understand that concept. To be a little more specific on what I did, I used the HP curves and calculated the TQ from them so they can be a little more "apples to apples" in comparison. But if you match up the details that we do now, such as where peak power and peak torque occurs for each car, and then shift the curves over to those numbers, this is what we basically get. I'm probably just doing a poor job explaining it, but if you take the time to analyze the graph, you should be able to see that the known details and curves match up (obviously more or less with a good bit of room for error). It was just for fun since someone requested it.

If you want to see how hard I went at it, here's a quick snip.

EDIT: Also to clarify, this is measurement in Horsepower and lb-ft for torque.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:32 PM   #416
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Originally Posted by Dzmitry View Post

EDIT: Also to clarify, this is measurement in Horsepower and lb-ft for torque.
AHHHHH there is where I was stumbling! I was looking at it with Nm numbers in my head.


OK now I get it.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:33 PM   #417
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The question isn't how much but for how long


Depends on the build. At modest levels, there is no reason FI on E85 can't last the typical lifecycle of a car; ie, 150k-200k or 10+ years. Quality compoenents on a good tune. I'm on E85 with a bar of boost on stock internals. If I had a built FA20 engine or the FA24 stock then 400-450whp would likely be easily achievable and reliable. That is a very respectable amount of power for 2800lbs.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:34 PM   #418
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AHHHHH there is where I was stumbling! I was looking at it with Nm numbers in my head.


OK now I get it.
Yes, sorry. As I said, I am not very good at explaining my work. I just know it made sense while I was doing it.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:35 PM   #419
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The car looks like Subaru had a free hand in styling it. It could have been worse.

I’ll keep my silver 2013. I love it’s elegant and graceful lines, particularly at profile. And that version of silver was only offered the first two years.

With just 50,000 miles it has years of service remaining. I drove a new 2020 recently and it was a little nicer.

Maybe just add some sway bars and basic go faster parts and call it a day. And summer performance tires.
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Old 11-19-2020, 01:39 PM   #420
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Yes, sorry. As I said, I am not very good at explaining my work. I just know it made sense while I was doing it.
Something still looks off to me but I can't put my finger on it. If I wake up at 2 tomorrow morning and go "AH HA" I will hold you personally responsable for my interrupted sleep!
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