follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Delicious Tuning
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB > Technical Topics > Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting

Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-17-2020, 12:26 PM   #155
racingfool
Senior Member
 
racingfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: Miata
Location: Seattle
Posts: 241
Thanks: 86
Thanked 108 Times in 68 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
Once or twice on a larger course for sure
If 3rd is required with the 4.1 FD, seems going with the 4.3 and more shifting might be a good plan.

4.3 and 15" Rivals would make 3rd much more usable, and 2nd much better in slow sections.
racingfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 02:14 PM   #156
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
If 3rd is required with the 4.1 FD, seems going with the 4.3 and more shifting might be a good plan.

4.3 and 15" Rivals would make 3rd much more usable, and 2nd much better in slow sections.
Sorry, I didn't convey my sentiment properly, in my experience, lots of edge cases, lots of riding 2nd gear approaching elements at ~60mph at my locals, but we have access to an unusually large Nationals level site. I have zero desire for shorter gearing and if anything need to tweak my rev limiter to allow me to ride the top of 2nd better at ~61-62 mph (right now it bleeds off speed instead of holding, silly OFT tune)

Are you implying going to a 15" wheel? Good luck finding a 5x100 pattern 15" wheel in a good offset without going custom, I've come up empty also trying to use that BFG 245/15 on a newer car, BMW and Miatas still use 15's but most are 4 hole pattern and rather low offset which won't be great for this car.

I get the sentiment, on paper the dig from being out of the power seems to happen just as often as being in that gray area on the 2-3 shift, while they're both worth time I think there's a higher risk for lower reward on going for third gear when your competitors don't have to. But if you can make it work for you then you might have found something.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 02:41 PM   #157
racingfool
Senior Member
 
racingfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: Miata
Location: Seattle
Posts: 241
Thanks: 86
Thanked 108 Times in 68 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
Are you implying going to a 15" wheel? Good luck finding a 5x100
Yep, I realize custom wheels would most likely be required.

Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster View Post
being out of the power seems to happen just as often as being in that gray area on the 2-3 shift
When you only shift a few times a year, a blown shift is a real possibility.

But if I'm shifting every autocross I might get good at it. =)
racingfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2020, 04:14 PM   #158
Racecomp Engineering
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Drives: 2016 BRZ, 2012 Paris Di2 & 2018 STI
Location: Severn, MD
Posts: 5,393
Thanks: 3,406
Thanked 7,233 Times in 2,957 Posts
Mentioned: 303 Post(s)
Tagged: 9 Thread(s)
Send a message via AIM to Racecomp Engineering
15's are hard to fit...brake clearance isn't too bad but the position of the tie rod makes things tough.

There are only a couple 15 inch rally wheels that fit, and they're not light.

Some of the rally people modify their tie rods to fit more wheels but that's probably not STX legal.

- Andrew
Racecomp Engineering is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Racecomp Engineering For This Useful Post:
smg1138 (04-17-2020)
Old 05-04-2020, 07:25 AM   #159
Autoxer62
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: Fairfax, VA
Posts: 149
Thanks: 45
Thanked 70 Times in 51 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
FYI, the newest cars are now officially legal in STX. From the 2020 rulebook, Appendix A, STX:

Scion
FR-S
Subaru
BRZ (2013-20)
Toyota
86 (2020)

I guess someone else could write to get the 2017 - 2019 86 explicitly called out, but at this point I'd expect a protest to get tossed anyway given the BRZ is listed for all years.
__________________
-- Bryan Blackwell --
2020 Hakone 86 -- KW V2 6k&9k/Karcepts Sway Bars/SPC&Diftech RCLA/SuperPro bshngs/17x9 RPF1/255-40-17 RT660/Hawk5.0 Pads/RacerX MC Brace
Autoxer62 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-04-2020, 10:43 AM   #160
e1_griego
Senior Member
 
e1_griego's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Drives: Many
Location: Independence, Ore.
Posts: 704
Thanks: 227
Thanked 391 Times in 235 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
The newer 86 was already STX legal.
e1_griego is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 09:22 AM   #161
steverife
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2016 Scion FRS
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 457
Thanks: 52
Thanked 275 Times in 181 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
How often are you guys shifting into 3rd?

Is the 4.3 final drive on later cars a plus or minus?

2019 nationals videos seem to be all 2nd gear.
Here is my only event in STX.



There were 2 extended periods on the limiter. Around the 25 second mark with the fence to the left and then the last 5 or so seconds of the course. I tried grabbing 3rd through the finish, but I'd either slide the car too much and scrub off speed or clip one of the last cones trying to avoid that.

Car is a 2016 model with limiter at 7850. I anticipate this will be pretty typical for me, so in my world, the shorter gearing would be very frustrating.
steverife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 10:18 AM   #162
racingfool
Senior Member
 
racingfool's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Drives: Miata
Location: Seattle
Posts: 241
Thanks: 86
Thanked 108 Times in 68 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
So you're hitting 64 mph on the limiter?

With a 4.3 and a shift to 3rd you would still be at 5700 at 64 mph.
Would that feel like you're lugging it too much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverife View Post
I tried grabbing 3rd through the finish, but...
If you were using 3rd on most courses you would get better at it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steverife View Post

There were 2 extended periods on the limiter.
Around the 25 second mark with the fence to the left and then the last 5 or so seconds of the course.


so in my world, the shorter gearing would be very frustrating.
In my world, being on the limiter for five+ seconds would be very frustrating.
racingfool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 10:54 AM   #163
steverife
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Drives: 2016 Scion FRS
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 457
Thanks: 52
Thanked 275 Times in 181 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
So you're hitting 64 mph on the limiter?

With a 4.3 and a shift to 3rd you would still be at 5700 at 64 mph.
Would that feel like you're lugging it too much?


If you were using 3rd on most courses you would get better at it.


In my world, being on the limiter for five+ seconds would be very frustrating.
Not sure on the MPH, but something like that.

No issues with the mechanics of the shift. You just had to be perfect in the 5-10 seconds leading up to the shift or risk losing momentum or blowing the run with a cone or spin. And I found more time being more aggressive thru that leading section than I found by upshifting.

Last edited by steverife; 05-11-2020 at 11:12 AM.
steverife is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 11:49 AM   #164
troyguitar
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Drives: 2020 Toyota 86
Location: Hoth
Posts: 36
Thanks: 0
Thanked 50 Times in 18 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
I expect that the 4.3 will require 8000 RPM and taller tires if they'll fit, like 245/45/17 or going to 18s. Dunno if they make those in A052 though.

I like the shorter gearing on mine but I'm not trying to be competitive.
troyguitar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 01:47 PM   #165
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyguitar View Post
I expect that the 4.3 will require 8000 RPM and taller tires if they'll fit, like 245/45/17 or going to 18s. Dunno if they make those in A052 though.

I like the shorter gearing on mine but I'm not trying to be competitive.
255/40/17 is pretty common, available in all the fast tires and a few tenths taller than the 245/40/17. For the A052's it's a half inch taller.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 03:07 PM   #166
M0nk3y
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Drives: 2016 Scion FRS / Chevy Colorado
Location: Ohio
Posts: 626
Thanks: 51
Thanked 519 Times in 293 Posts
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingfool View Post
So you're hitting 64 mph on the limiter?

With a 4.3 and a shift to 3rd you would still be at 5700 at 64 mph.
Would that feel like you're lugging it too much?


If you were using 3rd on most courses you would get better at it.


In my world, being on the limiter for five+ seconds would be very frustrating.
Sounds like you would want to shift here then:



3rd gear you hit a brick wall, unless it's a long long section where I'd get high into 60s I avoid 3rd gear, and/or if it's a finish. The payoff isn't something you think it is
__________________
Kyle H. - #89 STX
M0nk3y is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to M0nk3y For This Useful Post:
strat61caster (05-11-2020)
Old 05-11-2020, 03:45 PM   #167
strat61caster
-
 
strat61caster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Drives: '13 FRS - STX
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 10,360
Thanks: 13,724
Thanked 9,470 Times in 4,993 Posts
Mentioned: 94 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
I did the math on a higher rev limiter a few months back (looking at the 58-62 mph range), not sure where it went, but even 3-4 mph faster over a few hundred feet was something like 0.01s which is totally negated if you're wide on a cone by a foot because you hamfisted your braking/downshift/turn-in trying to juggle everything at once.

Looking at the Bristol video above, if you nail your up/downshifts perfectly and adjust all your throttle/braking inputs appropriately, it might add up to a tenth, at best, but I'd absolutely take the safety of not worrying about the shifts given how hectic and transitiony those sections were. If I had a free half inch of wheel diameter to add on that course I'd make the swap though.

Great example of where this car straddles the line on gearing for national style courses. I've heard some people say autox is an exercise in damage control, a 98% run is usually faster than a 102% run.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guff View Post
ineedyourdiddly
strat61caster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2020, 09:29 PM   #168
Breadman
Senior Member
 
Breadman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Drives: 2017 BRZ w/PP
Location: Pa
Posts: 1,027
Thanks: 51
Thanked 302 Times in 225 Posts
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
whoever said you need to add the inserts, thank you. i put them in over the weekend and ripped a backroad. feels like a totally different car
Breadman is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SSC setup thread conehead Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 26 06-06-2023 02:21 PM
Vortech Owner Thread & Setup Questions reyruiz191 Forced Induction 340 05-17-2022 12:44 PM
STX setup sharing thread (2019) CoolHandMoss Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 110 02-17-2020 11:27 AM
STX Set-Up Sharing & Results Thread race2win Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting 76 02-16-2017 11:30 AM
Official Roll Cage/Bar Thread **Show off your setup!** slava Suspension | Chassis | Brakes -- Sponsored by 949 Racing 4 01-02-2015 10:05 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2024 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.