Brakes Upgrades

[strat61caster]

OP, just get pads and fluid, if you can kill a set of Carbotech XP10s and boil some Motul RBF660 then you're ready for a BBK, if not you just saved yourself several hundred if not a thousand plus bucks.

Here's why people buy bbk for track:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94608

Note, that guy had no problem tracking on OE calipers and was getting three track days out of a set of high end pads, when you kill pads that fast is when you upgrade.

[ls1ac]

last weekend we got black flagged twice for cherry rotors. we convinced the Stuart that we could tell when things got too hot and fade started. we will be putting bigger brakes on this winter to help get rid of the heat and cooling ducks.
we were running stock except for Ferodo 2500.


oh, synthetic fluid, 888 tires and fi. we never did boil the fluid.

[churchx]

BTW, there IS one case, when rear BBK upgrade is warranted by practical/braking efficiency reasons. - If some particular front BBK is not designed brake-bias wise to work together with stockers, but only with matching rear BBK. And of course case if you want different functional construction, eg. with hydraulic e-brake for drifting .. in this case i doubt kit to not be marked 'for offroad use' though.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

However, this is different from the general misconception that bigger brakes are just for heat management.

If bigger brakes are not just for heat management what are they for?
As @churchx mentioned most modern cars are capable of engaging the abs with stock brakes when cold. Given that maximum braking occurs just before wheel lock-up then isn't the tyre the limiting component?

@JRitt

[Ernest72]

Compared to my 2004 WRX, the BRZ has great braking. I have locked them by accident a few times when encountering idiots on the road. No way my WRX would brake as well. I think you do not need a BBK for autox or an occasional track day. Now if you start racing competitively then get one because every advantage counts. Any BBK on the road for a DD is bling. I think there are better ways to send the money, but it's your car and at least it will look nice.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I think you do not need a BBK for autox or an occasional track day. nice.

You do not need a bbk for autox but how is going to the track a few times different from going many times? You still need brakes to last the session.

[churchx]

If session is 10 minutes and car is NA, stockers imho do just fine. With 15min fade was too much to my taste and i often replaced braking with drifting to bleed speed, and in one session that i prolonged to 20 minutes fluid was boiling :/
Still, depending on tire state and general tiredness/loosing concentration, 10 mins with cooling brakes & some rest for self between several such short sessions might be acceptable for many "occasional" track enthusiasts. I'm still VERY impressed how well car performed even 100% stock, and hate cases where people worsen it purely for bling reasons, while claiming that they wish to improve it. It deserves better than that. Good thing that involvement like that of Essex / RCE / CSG guys in this forum at least lessened that trend of many reigning myths and many car illiteracy caused common mistakes

[dp1]

I saw a skilled instructor turn consistently fast laps on various tracks on track pads and oem/similar rotors and calipers for a couple of years. Many track days, 20-45min sessions. Assume late and hard braking much more than riding brakes that can cause trouble.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Captain Snooze

If bigger brakes are not just for heat management what are they for?

Reducing consumable cost via cheaper pads due to a more common pad shape and thicker pads offering more life.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Reducing consumable cost via cheaper pads due to a more common pad shape and thicker pads offering more life.

Yeah, I mentioned that in my first post above but I got hung up on the heat issue.

[dooms101]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. After doing some research and considering what you've said I'm sticking to upgraded pads and fluid to start. I've never been on a track before so I am probably not going to come anywhere near to needing a full BBK for now.

I just ordered a bunch of parts and I threw in a set of Hawk Performance ceramic pads (front and rear). I want something that would be a nice upgrade over stock but not too harsh for normal driving. Does anyone have experience with these pads?

Also what do people think of the stock tires? I'm going to hold off on wheels and tires for a while so I can figure out what I want from them.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by dooms101

Also what do people think of the stock tires? I'm going to hold off on wheels and tires for a while so I can figure out what I want from them.

Cheap, durable, low levels of grip=lower risks while learning.

Use them, abuse them, when they're out of tread toss them out and don't look back. Start with OE pressures and when you start driving hard the edges will get chewed up telling you your starting to do it right.

[dooms101]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Cheap, durable, low levels of grip=lower risks while learning.

Use them, abuse them, when they're out of tread toss them out and don't look back. Start with OE pressures and when you start driving hard the edges will get chewed up telling you your starting to do it right.

Hard to argue with that. I've been really enjoying how easy it is to squeal the tires, I've been trying to get it sideways but the VSC always kicks in. Is there a quick guide to the different sport modes? I usually use the manual mode with the sport mode on, traction off, and VSC on (I press the middle sport button and the right VSC button). Is there a more aggressive mode? I know about the "pedal dance" fully off mode but that seems too much for normal street fun.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by dooms101

but that seems too much for normal street fun.

Originally Posted by stugray

The way I see it:
If you consider yourself "a driver", but you have never had your car on a track, then STFU.

I used to think I was a hot-shit driver because I could corner fast, heel toe, speed without getting caught, and drift on the street.
Then ONE TIME out on a track and you realize that you just did more real driving in 20 minutes than ALL of that BS that you called driving while on the street combined (in 30 years of driving).
So acting like a jackass on the street proves absolutely nothing except who is willing to take the greater risk.
If that's all you are trying to prove, then take up base jumping because WHEN you screw up, it will only be your own life you take.

I feel the same way about people who have only ever driven the car on the street, but feel the need to do all kinds of upgrades to the suspension, coils, sway bars, lighter wheels etc. - BIG waste of $$
Might as well just buy some more copies of F&F1-7 for all the good it will do you making you "faster".

This.