Could use a little tyre advice here

[atomicalex]

I'm a light track/autocross person (a few events per year) and have run some very aggressive summers on my VWs in the past for combined street/track use. I'm familiar with temp limits and questionable wet traction. I do drive rather aggressively (not obnoxious, but def aggressive) and am used to grabbing traction where I can. I am also comfortable with silly treadwear and don't mind buying lots of tyres if necessary. Friction lining upgrades are in the plan.

New (one year in) in RWD, and after a really "interesting" cold track day last year on the stock Michelins, I'm super suspicious of rain grooves.

I'm expecting either a 215/45/17 or a 225/45/17. Haven't picked out wheels yet.

On my radar: Direzza DZ102, Sumitomo HTR ZIII, Firestone Indy 500 (I am old enough to be really nervous about a tire called a Firestone anything 500).

Any other suggestions or feedback specific to BRZ/86? There are tons of reviews that have little to do with 86-ing, so I tend to discount them. Hence, asking the crowd here, please!

Thank you.

[YamahaR86]

I'm a novice to autocrossing but I just got the Indy 500 based on so many reviews and have to say, they're the nicest tires I've ever driven on. Makes me reconsider cheaping out on tires from now on.


They're also re-branded Bridgestone Potenza RE003.


Running 225/45/17 on my 17x8/+35

[Jpembry]

I’ve owned and autocrossed on both the sumi and the indy. The indy is the better tire of the two in pretty much every category. However it’s not great on the autox course, after a few runs it gets greasy and tends to roll over quite a bit. But if you only do a few events per year it should be fine. Great street summer tire!

[fatoni]

isnt the a052 the new king of "street tire?" the re71 is nutty too. well beyond the type of tire youre talking about.

[venturaII]

Of the three you listed, I've only been on the Sumi ZIII. That said, while it was a fair enough price/performance value, it got very loud towards the end of it's life and did not wear predictably; VERY sensitive to camber. I think the Conti ExtremeContact is a better alternative for similar price, plus it's a hair lighter and it's wet performance was out of this world. I've tried autocrossing on both, and while they're not 200TW tires, they did respectably well.

As mentioned, the Firestone is just a rebranded Potenza RE003, which apparently is a decent tire but has been around for a little while now. The new Potenza S007A seems like it might be a good candidate for a hot street tire that is tolerant of infrequent autocross/track days, and the pricing looks good too. 240 TW rating suggests it's pretty sticky as well.

Real track/autox tires like A052, RE-71R, etc. would likely be slower until you put some heat into them, which is fine when tracking or dodging cones, but on the street where occasional fast bursts are relatively infrequent and tires will run colder, the others would already be closer to their optimum temp.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by atomicalex

I'm a light track/autocross person (a few events per year) and have run some very aggressive summers on my VWs in the past for combined street/track use.
...
I am also comfortable with silly treadwear and don't mind buying lots of tyres if necessary.
...
On my radar: Direzza DZ102, Sumitomo HTR ZIII, Firestone Indy 500 .

You're looking in the wrong category of tires for what you want! You are in UHP Summer, two categories less "aggressive" than Extreme Performance Summers you should be looking at. RE71R are top of that heap. Incredible grip, but short-lived (I bought 3 sets last year...). Others: BFG Rival, Dunlop ZIII, Hankook RS4, etc.

You might even consider "streetable" R-comps like Nitto NT01, Yok A052, and Toyo R888R.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by fatoni

isnt the a052 the new king of "street tire?" the re71 is nutty too. well beyond the type of tire youre talking about.

A052 is a competition tire like NT01 and R888R, and not a "street tire" like the RE71R. Reportedly as much as 1 second per track mile faster than RE71R. I hope so as I'm getting a set for my Cayman
Methinks the 200 treadwear rating is specifically to make it "legal" in some classes, despite not being a real "street tire"...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by venturaII

Real track/autox tires like A052, RE-71R, etc. would likely be slower until you put some heat into them, which is fine when tracking or dodging cones, but on the street where occasional fast bursts are relatively infrequent and tires will run colder, the others would already be closer to their optimum temp.

RE71R are great on the street, I've never had any issues with low "cold" grip. Pretty sure they are specifically designed to give great grip right off the bat, with the drawback being that after a several laps at the track they might start to get past their optimum heat range and lose grip. Which wouldn't be an issue at all on the street.

I've streeted on NT01s as well, into the autumn months in New England, and IMO even those had decent enough cold grip for semi-spirited street driving.

[venturaII]

Not saying they can't be driven on the street, but any tire in the 200TW category are going to be further from their peak grip temps than a more street oriented model like the S007A with it's 240TW rating. Given that OP only does a few events a year, he'd be better off with a tire that was closer to it's optimum operating temp and only giving up a small amount of peak grip in exchange for not needing to come up to temps as much, so he'll have potentially more grip available immediately..

[ZDan]

You should not judge cold grip by treadwear rating. There's not going to be much if any meaningful correlation. Even at the same treadwear rating some tires are optimized to have more grip sooner at colder temps and some are optimized to have grip that lasts for many laps at hotter temps.

I would put money down on the RE71R vs. S007A for initial cold grip at, say, 55F temps. But I'd also put money down that any difference between the two for street driving is going to be negligible for all practical purposes.

Tire Rack tested and compared these two tires, along with the S-04, on the street and on their track: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=239

Road test suggests RE71R superiority as far as performance. Track and slalom results: S007A's wet performance is a bit disappointing, way down from the dominating RE71R and not as good as S-04 either.

If anything it seems to me the RE71R probably has better grip when cooler, if wet grip is any indication.

Originally Posted by venturaII

Not saying they can't be driven on the street, but any tire in the 200TW category are going to be further from their peak grip temps than a more street oriented model like the S007A with it's 240TW rating. Given that OP only does a few events a year, he'd be better off with a tire that was closer to it's optimum operating temp and only giving up a small amount of peak grip in exchange for not needing to come up to temps as much, so he'll have potentially more grip available immediately..

[venturaII]

I'm well aware that TWR is a somewhat arbitrary rating; certainly across brands, and even somewhat within a brand itself.

Originally Posted by ZDan

But I'd also put money down that any difference between the two for street driving is going to be negligible for all practical purposes.

That much I agree with, in which case the cheaper and likely much longer lasting S007A would be the logical choice to make for a vehicle driven primarily on the street, at street temps, and in street conditions, while still tolerating the occasional trackday.

Let's also not forget the category of tires he's using as an example of the type of performance and use case scenario he wants is decidedly different than where an RE-71R lives.

[atomicalex]

You guys are totally getting where I am stuck. I used to run Kumho Ecsta MXs on my B5 all summer, for track and street, and below 50°F was pretty sketchy. They had to be off the car by 45°F or it wasn't going anywhere. Track performance was excellent and warm dry street performance was excellent. I could tell you exactly how much tread I had left based on rain performance.

I'm not sure I want to deal with that every day again, but I hate hate hate giving up track day performance. Greasy tyres are the worst. However, there is also the issue that I am still learning to drive this car. I can outdrive the old B5 all day, but I'm not there with this car yet, so I'm not sure I need balls-out tyres. Just very good tyres. I have another year of work before I will be really pushing this car. I'd like to grow the car with me, rather than going to a crazy setup right away.

The whole 200TWR thing is all about legal for various racing series. I think LeMons is at 190 now, they were at 220 for a long time. That led to a lot of 220-rated tyres. So there should be tons of pretty sticky 200-rated tyres now that are treading the line of being legal for various series and barely lasting 5K miles. The MXs were 220, and that was a stretch - I could get a whopping 10K and 4 track days out of a set, which meant I was tossing a new set on every spring. Fortunately, they were cheap.

[atomicalex]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Tire Rack tested and compared these two tires, along with the S-04, on the street and on their track: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=239

That was super helpful! I can see exactly what I am looking for on the spider charts. Probs unobtainium, but whatever. Thank you!!

The BMW is a heavy pig, good lord. With 430kg less, the S007s may be what I am looking for.

I found some pretty funny differences between my big lug of a wagon and my old Scirocco - I could run pretty lazy tyres on the Scirocket (840kg!), but the B5 (1410kg) required real meat under it due to the weight.

[Jpembry]

Hate to say it but honeslty if it’s your daily.. there’s a hashtag going around #justgetthemichelins... and I would have to agree.. they will outperform anything else on the street, perform well on the track, and wear at least twice as well as anything in the 200 range which will help justify the cost. Also pretty much all the 200tw and below are pretty loud, which can get old if it’s your dd. Just my opinion, but you’re going to have to decide where you want to compromise.