05-06-2020, 12:54 PM | #197 |
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Fight all you want. Rarely are things black and white, usually shades of gray.
What I read is that doing a swap, whether the STI version, the caddy version is not optimal and not a real upgrade. If done for show for street and DD, the implications are likely not an issue. If autox and track are your thing then likely it’s not a good thing and you would be better off with brakes designed for the car. As far as brembo having an interest, they are just stating the facts. Any product is designed for a certain use in general, people will always take these products and adapt them to other things. Sometimes it works, other times it does not. There is likely someone tracking with swapped brakes and it’s working, but perhaps not as good as a purpose built BBK. The difference in price and performance may be worth it to that person or not. Truth is if you had the money you would do it right. |
05-06-2020, 01:17 PM | #198 | |
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05-06-2020, 03:10 PM | #199 | |
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Stopping distances are hurt, as is ability to properly trail brake and load. Remember, stopping distances are determined by tire grip, not by "how powerful" your brakes are or "how much torque/friction you have". By altering the bias, you increase the rate at which the two tires are overwhelmed, and decreas the rate at which the other two are overwhelmed. |
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05-06-2020, 03:23 PM | #200 |
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And as brake fluid used is referred as generic as DOT4 with no mention of dry/wet boiling temps, and pads are as generic named "track pads" without specific vendor and pad compound type, i suspect that there is lot left on the table even with stock brakes capabilities/thermal capacity.
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05-06-2020, 03:45 PM | #201 | |
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05-06-2020, 04:42 PM | #202 |
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Hardly ever mentioned...poor man's bbk 2015+ wrx calipers (not sti brembos). Can be had for $100 used. Centric rotors run $80 a pair. Rotors last about 25 days if not more. I usually change them out half way through the season, so never when beyond 25 days. Brake bias changed? Yes. Dust boot burns out? Yes. At $100 a pair I just trash them at the end of the season and install a fresh pair.
Clears base stock 17in wheels so I can use them for daily and in the winter. And not having to worry about fitment issues (Enkei 17x9 45mm for example is a hard fit for most if not all bbks). Last edited by dreamwonder; 05-06-2020 at 04:56 PM. |
05-06-2020, 04:56 PM | #203 |
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Thanks Mike that was very well written and very informative. And while yes there is definitely room for improvement with my current setup going to dba 2 piece rotors and super expensive pads. I'm currently running Powerstop track day spec pad and they work damn good for the price and Napa dot 4 which has been proven to be good as well. But is spending $800+ going to get me to the base of what a brembo would perform at be worth it? Who's to say, could be. So let's look at three options for brembos the STI, Grand Turismo, and the PP brakes. All use the same size rotor and pads, all have different piston sizes so each will have a different change on bias. So I guess you would have to know what the change is and if its in acceptable range does more rear bias work better more front? As close to stock?
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05-07-2020, 01:34 PM | #204 | |
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I'm just bench racing with this idea though since I'm using the stock wheels for winter driving, and Canadian winters (salt) I won't be doing any bbk upgrades anyway. |
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05-07-2020, 01:53 PM | #205 |
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The more there is grip, indeed, more mass transfer & "ideal" bias is more to front (and vice versa, the less grip, till even something like on gravel road or on ice, "ideal" is closer to 50:50). Aftermarket aero also might be reason for bias change, as it may increase overall grip and also be differently balanced front/rear downforce wise.
Then again, most people daily drive theirs instead of making track-only, and on street rarely someone drives on hoosier track slicks, if nothing else then due their wet grip, need of heatup to working temps and insane wear rate. As for generic case, for most, that mostly drive theirs daily, only fraction of which, only sometimes take it to the track, obviously stock bias fits well most of a time. But those that made their dedicated track car usually are competent enough on wished best setups and may have also brake biasing valve installed. Or in simplest case - use staggered brakepad compounds front-rear. |
05-07-2020, 04:16 PM | #206 | |
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Every time I've seen this comparison done, the result is the same; the frankenstein "upgrade" dramatically hurts stopping distances. If your metric is disc life, rather than stopping distance, well, remember you're spending a lot of money to go fast on track, not to save rotor cost that ultimately amortizes into the same value as a few gallons of gas per track day. |
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05-07-2020, 05:20 PM | #207 |
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Just to throw it out. When we first got the car we wondered how it would do at the track as delivered. We got black flagged for having bright cherry rotors in the front. They were afraid we would boil the fluid and have no brakes. (track pads in stock calipers) We changed to bigger disks, four pot calipers cooling duck and stainless lines. Cooling was our issue not stopping distance. Never had a balance problem, and have not had a problem since. I use as a DD with no problem either. I have never felt the ABS kick in but maybe it is so much better than the old units I can not feel it.
These cars are amazing, even in stock dress. Only when we push it way beyond normal do little things appear. edit: it is a system designed for the car, but not Brembo. |
05-07-2020, 05:58 PM | #208 | |
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05-11-2020, 05:21 PM | #209 | |
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Same as swapping stock dampers for fresh stock ones after 5 track days. This applies not just to fast guys but also anyone who's not a complete novice, and has even the faintest understand of threshold braking. |
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05-11-2020, 05:28 PM | #210 | |
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