Differences between Performance Pkg v. tS

[LancePower]

Originally Posted by N_Raged

All this talk about bump stops got me thinking. Does the tS have shorter bump stops for its mild 10-15mm drop? How often do people bottom out their tS on its bump stops?

Can't say I'm sure I've ever hit the bump stops.

[SUSPECT_BRZ]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I was cross shopping the RS against the Hakone and the RS was actually $50 cheaper. You get a pile of extras for that money! Don't think they are overpriced at all.

I meant the TS is a little overpriced. With taxes and everything that vehicle costs 40K (Canadian). I think that the 2K bump for the TS vs the RS is also fair considering all the upgrades, installed and under warranty.

I totally agree with you that the RS is a better deal than the Hakone. Overall I think Subaru offered a much better product on the BRZ vs the 86. I tested a base 86, found it quite bland, then tested the RS and it was smiles per miles.

[Seiryuu]

Originally Posted by Veloist

We learned from one user that the tS was faster around a track (~1sec) compared to their modded BRZ with bigger tires, header, and a tune.

I was wondering if you are referring to this video?

While there is confirmation on the greatness of the handling improvements on the tS, I do wonder why such a huge gap over an extensively (and judging from the mod list, thoughtfully and functionally) modded BRZ. It leads me to thinking:


1. The older Falken tires, though still grippy, is bottlenecking the modded BRZ's full performance and not allowing it to make full use of its extra power. Likewise, the newer and fresher Pilot Sport 4 on the tS closed the gap.

2. Even with stock engine output in the tS, the aero improvements (and better tires) more than make up for the power difference in the modded BRZ. The tS' aero is THAT functionally awesome!

3. All that extensive modding (headers, exhaust, ECU tune, and upgraded suspension and brakes) actually did nothing...


I wonder which of the three cases is most accurate?

[Veloist]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

I was wondering if you are referring to this video?

While there is confirmation on the greatness of the handling improvements on the tS, I do wonder why such a huge gap over an extensively (and judging from the mod list, thoughtfully and functionally) modded BRZ. It leads me to thinking:


1. The older Falken tires, though still grippy, is bottlenecking the modded BRZ's full performance and not allowing it to make full use of its extra power. Likewise, the newer and fresher Pilot Sport 4 on the tS closed the gap.

2. Even with stock engine output in the tS, the aero improvements (and better tires) more than make up for the power difference in the modded BRZ. The tS' aero is THAT functionally awesome!

3. All that extensive modding (headers, exhaust, ECU tune, and upgraded suspension and brakes) actually did nothing...


I wonder which of the three cases is most accurate?

It’s probably the tires + suspension bits on the tS...If you compare the two clips of him driving...when he drives his car he’s sawing at the wheel, but in the tS he can keep the momentum through the turn.

I don’t drive on the track but even just on the twisties the tS really shines because it can hold speed through turns without VSC kicking in without the pedal dance. If I drove a non-tS twin the same way I drive the tS, the rear end is going to want to come out mid corner and you’d need to completely turn off VSC in that case. That’s the real character of a stock & non-tS twin, but the tS setup provides a delightful driving element that feels more sharper and confident.

Another difference most people aren’t aware of is that the tS has an “STI-Tuned” TCS & VSC. I’m assuming this is more to adjust to the grippier setup. What I’ve noticed is that the nannies just have a much higher threshold if left on, and an even higher threshold before kicking in, in track mode.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

I was wondering if you are referring to this video?

While there is confirmation on the greatness of the handling improvements on the tS, I do wonder why such a huge gap over an extensively (and judging from the mod list, thoughtfully and functionally) modded BRZ. It leads me to thinking:


1. The older Falken tires, though still grippy, is bottlenecking the modded BRZ's full performance and not allowing it to make full use of its extra power. Likewise, the newer and fresher Pilot Sport 4 on the tS closed the gap.

2. Even with stock engine output in the tS, the aero improvements (and better tires) more than make up for the power difference in the modded BRZ. The tS' aero is THAT functionally awesome!

3. All that extensive modding (headers, exhaust, ECU tune, and upgraded suspension and brakes) actually did nothing...


I wonder which of the three cases is most accurate?

4. There are considerable factory improvements between '14 and '18 models.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

4. There are considerable factory improvements between '14 and '18 models.

They definitely improved things, but nothing you could not do in the aftermarket.

I think it’s just noise. Do this comparison 100 times and see where it lands, then I can believe it. When your N=1, it’s hard to put a lot of faith in something.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

They definitely improved things, but nothing you could not do in the aftermarket.

I think it’s just noise. Do this comparison 100 times and see where it lands, then I can believe it. When your N=1, it’s hard to put a lot of faith in something.

I think he said that he made multiple runs and the tS was always faster, but it is a long time I watched this video.

[Veloist]

The owner of the video was saying every lap in the tS was always about 1sec-1.5 sec quicker, and the same applied to his friend who had mostly suspension mods and wider tires on his FR-S. The owner of the video had the 2017 suspension and final drive too, along with his other mods on his BRZ.

[Seiryuu]

Ultimately, I think it is a good example that making more power alone with the popular combo (header+exhaust+tune) doesn't equate to a faster car. The car needs to be able to put down and utilize them as well. The tS setup allows it to use most of what it has got to give.



This may well be a counter-example of those who argue they should get a cheaper (used) model and sink the leftover money into better suspension and tires over buying a new tS and be better than the latter.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

Ultimately, I think it is a good example that making more power alone with the popular combo (header+exhaust+tune) doesn't equate to a faster car. The car needs to be able to put down and utilize them as well. The tS setup allows it to use most of what it has got to give.



This may well be a counter-example of those who argue they should get a cheaper (used) model and sink the leftover money into better suspension and tires over buying a new tS and be better than the latter.

I would tend to agree if you are racing to win. If you are DD, some spirited mountain runs, autox or even a few track days, this difference in time will mean nothing to your life. We all know if you want to win in racing you have to pay. Therefore, for the overwhelming majority this difference is meaningless.

Don’t forget driving experience and style have a lot to do with how you perform. Therefore buying used and setting up the car how you want might be the better option. But there is no right or wrong answer, just what works for you.

[SUSPECT_BRZ]

I totally agree with the comment from Ernest. I personally went with the TS myself because I know I won't have to be upgrading the suspension down the road, it's already possibly the best it can be. With the right aftermarket parts, which are usually not cheap, you can achieve mostly anything. One second a lap is indeed meaningless if you are not in a competitive environment. I will add a full exhaust and headers down the road + tune on my TS. Now that should be fun.

[N_Raged]

Originally Posted by Ernest72

I would tend to agree if you are racing to win. If you are DD, some spirited mountain runs, autox or even a few track days, this difference in time will mean nothing to your life. We all know if you want to win in racing you have to pay. Therefore, for the overwhelming majority this difference is meaningless.

Don’t forget driving experience and style have a lot to do with how you perform. Therefore buying used and setting up the car how you want might be the better option. But there is no right or wrong answer, just what works for you.

Not if you're like me and want to stay in stock class at autocross. I'm definitely the minority but I'll take every OEM performance upgrade I can get if only to provide more feel and confidence. That's why I'm striving to turn my Performance Pack into a tS which will keep me in stock class.

What I don't want to do is go down the rabbit hole of lowering springs or coilovers which could potentially ruin the car's limit handling and bump me to the more competitive mod class.

[Ernest72]

Originally Posted by N_Raged

Not if you're like me and want to stay in stock class at autocross. I'm definitely the minority but I'll take every OEM performance upgrade I can get if only to provide more feel and confidence. That's why I'm striving to turn my Performance Pack into a tS which will keep me in stock class.

What I don't want to do is go down the rabbit hole of lowering springs or coilovers which could potentially ruin the car's limit handling and bump me to the more competitive mod class.

Absolutely agree. You are setting up your car and prioritizing your racing over DD. While the forum has many racers, most people should prioritize DD over racing, because most of us do DD 90% of the time.

After years of this I have figured out that most of us just need a nice grand touring car for fun. It really can meet most of your expectations. The problem is we all have that mod bug and want to improve our cars, but often the compromises you have to make are not ideal.

I don’t have the time to track right now but if I did I think I would build a specific track toy. It would still be street legal but nothing I would drive for long periods. My other car would still be modded because I have a disease, but it would need to be manageable for those 1.5 hr commutes in traffic after a long day at work that happen every once in awhile.

It’s about a balance and it’s different for everyone.

[dpfarr]

So thankful I can bicycle to work most days.