Subaru BRZ STI Spied Testing on Nurburgring!

[iLuveKetchup]

A small bump in HP ~ 15-20hp but with 200lbs taken off would be ideal for me. I don't think that much weight reduction is possible in a production street BRZ. I'm surprised on how much the BRZ weighs (~2750lbs), given its size and fixed roof. I'm guessing it's from all the new (mandatory) safety features that's adding the heft?

[zohare]

No one mentioned interior. XD one thing I have always like on STi s is the Alacantara bits. I do hope this one is as sweet and lighter seats maybe? Also, maybe we can COMPLETELY disable TC on this one. (Yes, I press and hold till both lights are on, but still see interference during... extreme? maneuvers.)

I must say I'm a little disappointed. No FI, means a peakier powerband even still unless we get VVT. The s2k made 240+, but with VVT. This engine is beginning to annoy the ever living hell out of me. Torque...wait, whered it go, hey, there it is again. I love this car, but will not pay what I would assume will be ~ 36k+ for freaking 40hp, and additional weight. (Since when have STi made their car LIGHTER than the standard car?? USDM that is) Suspension tuning can be accomplished by ones self. Brakes are definitely awesome.

That wing has to go, or be lower and wider. Like toyota's NUR spec, it's too freaking skinny. I also know very little about functional aerodynamics, and am speaking on aesthetics (maybe it's just a track tester for a 24hr car or something as someone mentioned) Everything on the body looks aftermarket, like it was bolted on- HUGE no go for me. I liked the old STi style wings, so was hoping for a clean molded wing similar to the Tommy Kaira? design. (can't remember which co, but have an image in my head.) I would have hoped they learned from sema that people want CLEANER, not busier body lines. Or maybe it's just me, and everyone loved the gigantic bowl of RICEY addons. Yeah, I said ricey. Seibon was lookin good. Needed more like that. Wide bodys that rivet on and cost 4400$? ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME... I have a miata for that!

FI would give us torque that we need down low, and maintain the top end. Would I love a 250, 260 hp N/A screamer? Hell yes. Do I think it's attainable with a car that has to meet OE specs and warranty and drivability standards? No... Not with just intake and exhaust bits. Unless they did a truly awful job with the parts that are on car now, but exhaust and CAI numbers indicate that's not the case. However... seeing as the compression is... well, dam near race N/A high, it just might be plausible. I DO LOVE the idea though of being able to purchase a few bits like intake manifold etc and have an STi spec'd motor though. It supports the concept of letting people do their own stuff to the car. Or maybe the 2.2 option comes into play, and they'll freaking tune it properly this time.

This engine has proved to respond WONDERFULLY to FI. Now here's a thought... TRD supercharger branded STi? wouldn't necessarily need an intercooler and would be right on the money for the 250hp mark. I know it's unlikely, but perhaps Subaru has somewhat their own version or something. I was super excited at the idea of 300hp in this car, but clearly they're going to be like every other freaking company and focus on aesthetics. It had better be lotus status out of the box, or boosted, or I'm just going to buy a WRX sedan or an M3.... Probably the latter. I am confused why they're ignoring input from owners. I could spend the difference in cost to an STi, and run ~300 WHEEL hp easily, and get BASIC suspension upgrades, possibly a BBK. I'm just thinking it needs to be in the 32k range, because if it's more than a normal STi, it had better perform like other cars in that range, that I might add include Caymans and the like....

[Longhorn248]

I like the wing! I want specs! (Maybe they're in this thread, but I'm too lazy to read it all)

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

A small bump in HP ~ 15-20hp but with 200lbs taken off would be ideal for me. I don't think that much weight reduction is possible in a production street BRZ. I'm surprised on how much the BRZ weighs (~2750lbs), given its size and fixed roof. I'm guessing it's from all the new (mandatory) safety features that's adding the heft?

15-20hp and 200lbs off would give it a substantially higher power/weight than the S2K, for a fraction of the original MSRP. I think that would make almost everyone happy.

[v33vo]

I doubt that wing will come with the car, I couldn't imagine them putting on something that tacky for production. I can see it being an add-on option

[2point0]

Originally Posted by zohare

Also, maybe we can COMPLETELY disable TC on this one. (Yes, I press and hold till both lights are on, but still see interference during... extreme? maneuvers.)

Turning off traction control does work like it should. The dash light flashes because the slip sensor is doing its job. Doesn't mean the TC is engaging, you'd feel it.

[iLuveKetchup]

Originally Posted by brewksy

15-20hp and 200lbs off would give it a substantially higher power/weight than the S2K, for a fraction of the original MSRP. I think that would make almost everyone happy.

Most definitely!! My track s2k is 2590lbs @ ~255hp. Definitely fun and a significant difference from stock!!

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by brewksy

15-20hp and 200lbs off would give it a substantially higher power/weight than the S2K, for a fraction of the original MSRP. I think that would make almost everyone happy.

240hpx11.9lbs= 2856lbs S2000

220hpx11.6lbs= 2552lbs The supposed BRZ STI

I wouldn't call that substantial. That power to weight ratio is very close so it would be a close call.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by SUB-FT86

240hpx11.9lbs= 2856lbs S2000

220hpx11.6lbs= 2552lbs The supposed BRZ STI

I wouldn't call that substantial. That power to weight ratio is very close so it would be a close call.

Substantial is a subjective measure, I suppose. But that difference on a 220hp car is the equivalent to 66 pounds of weight off the car.

Or, on another chart, showing models with 100lbs and 200lbs removed and their corresponding rank in the list, 200lbs off puts it half way between the S2K and RX7.

Car                  Weight             Cost          HP/Wt ratio   Power
'11 Lotus Elise R    2010               $51845        0.0940         189
'12 Porsche Cayman   2932               $51900        0.0903         265
'95 Mazda RX7        2882               $57702        0.0884         255
'14 Subaru BRZ STI   2562               $?????        0.0859         220
'09 Saturn Sky RL    3036               $33524        0.0856         260
'09 S2000            2864               $36771        0.0827         237
'14 Subaru BRZ STI   2662               $?????        0.0826         220
'11 Mini JCW         2668               $29100        0.0779         208
'11 Mazda RX8        3065               $26795        0.0756         232
'01 Acura Int Type R 2639               $32121        0.0738         195
'13 Subaru BRZ       2762               $25495        0.0724         200         
'05 Celica GTS       2500               $26748        0.0720         180
'11 Mini Cooper S    2668               $23000        0.0678         181
'12 Miata Touring    2480               $25550        0.0673         167
'00 Impreza 2.5RS    2795               $26201        0.0590         165
'05 Celica GT        2425               $21161        0.0577         140

... Ugh, I'm not trying to overly "nubmers"-specific. Let's just say that anything comparable to S2K numbers would impress a lot of people

[zohare]

Originally Posted by 2point0

Turning off traction control does work like it should. The dash light flashes because the slip sensor is doing its job. Doesn't mean the TC is engaging, you'd feel it.

Ah OK. thanks for this. Didn't seem like it was just curious kept worrying about wear on my brakes when it flashes as such.

[switchlanez]

Just thought this would be relevant to the people on this thread talking about "their version" of what the STI should be or about factory-installed (and warrantied) upgrades. Seeing as whatever upgrades Subaru may want to factory-install on their BRZ likely has to be okay-ed by the largest stakeholder (Toyota) in this joint project, here are some words straight from the horse's mouth:

"The philosophy of the 86 is that it is an open concept," says Mr Tada.

The conventional way is for the carmaker to produce a car and call it perfect, which means the users don't have to or can't do anything else.

For example, if the rims and tyres are changed, the manufacturer's warranty is void.
Instead, the 86 was created as a car with the potential to change into something the customer wants it to be.

"Why? Because if you ask 100 people what you think of the car, you will get 100 answers. They all have different views," he said.

Hence the open concept, which will satisfy customers because the car evolves with them and make 100 people's dreams come true."

[2point0]

I just read that article and all I heard was:

"The president (Akio Toyoda) has asked me to make a successor to the Supra as soon as possible."

Looking forward to this!

[dunphyjp]

still disagree... car at a stand still vs car on a left hand bend, weight shift goes to the outside right of the car giving an illusion of a dropped car... it's just weight transfer... even on straight aways level changes and of camber turns are what 'ring is famous for... aka being one of the most difficult road courses. and an STI concept will be lower than production car because most show cars are flared to make it look sportier than most... that extra oomph if you will.

Originally Posted by switchlanez

It's not an illusion. The drop - in plain sight - is clearly lower than 15mm. The 18" wheels have smaller sidewall tire profiles which maintain the same overall diameter as stock wheels/tires within 2%. This is coming from someone who scrutinizes his 15mm drop in comparison to the drop pictured in the STI concepts. The 1st BRZ pictured immediately below has been confirmed to be on STI-tuned Bilstein prototype dampers:



Unflattering shot of my car revealing monster truck ride height on 15mm drop STI pinks and 17" STI wheels maintaining the same overall wheel/tire diameter (within 2%) as the 18" STI wheels/tires:


BRZ Nurburgring test car on prototype suspension:


Chief engineer Tetsuya Tada has confirmed with me that the stock suspension geometry works ideally at a ride height of 20mm (+/-5mm) lower than stock. The STI prototype suspensions pictured above and below my car definitely look lower than 15mm; they're very likely 20-25mm lower than stock. They are track-tuning this BRZ's suspension and aero on the Nurburgring.

[switchlanez]

Originally Posted by dunphyjp

still disagree... car at a stand still vs car on a left hand bend, weight shift goes to the outside right of the car giving an illusion of a dropped car... it's just weight transfer... even on straight aways level changes and of camber turns are what 'ring is famous for... aka being one of the most difficult road courses. and an STI concept will be lower than production car because most show cars are flared to make it look sportier than most... that extra oomph if you will.

It still stands and has been published in writing that a Bilstein suspension is being developed for the BRZ by STI (close-up pics of it are floating on the web). The white BRZ STI looks lower than my car from all the different angles/shots (again, overall diameter of 18" vs. my 17" are essentially the same so no illusion there). Suspension tuning would be the #1 reason to invest in testing a car on the 'Ring over aero/power tuning. That said, why the heck would they be testing a set of springs that have long been released to the public?