The Great Torque vs. Horsepower Debate

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by brewksy

All of those show RPMs on the screen as people are driving around various tracks. Some go below 4K in corners on some tracks, while others stay much higher in the RPM range. But it depends on the track, the person, the car... none of these variables are the same on any different day. I just don't see how arguing the technicalities of HP/Torque as making the discussion about what's "best" any more relevant.

Interesting that you used all track videos in your post. Which brings me back to my point----- On the street, most people spend far more time in the lower RPM range (or even mid range) than they do in the high RPM range (or at/near redline). For that reason alone, I value low-end torque far more than high-end horsepower. For a car that is only driven on a track, I probably wouldn't feel the same way.

[brewksy]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Interesting that you used all track videos in your post. Which brings me back to my point----- On the street, most people spend far more time in the lower RPM range (or even mid range) than they do in the high RPM range (or at/near redline). For that reason alone, I value low-end torque far more than high-end horsepower. For a car that is only driven on a track, I probably wouldn't feel the same way.

Yeah, I only used the anecdotal "how my wife drives" story without a video. I don't think she'd allow me to video her driving...

[einzlr]

Originally Posted by Frostyman

Excellent read. Nothing beats a face full of math on a lunch break!

You betcha!

Originally Posted by dem00n

It's articles like these that make me wish more Colleges offered automotive engineering, though i guess i'll stick with Electrical Engineering.

It's all rooted in mechanical engineering; once you learn that it's easy to understand automotive applications. Get a mechanical engineering book (or find a tutorial online) and be prepared to marvel at the parallels in the equations to the ones you're familiar with from EE

[Gardus@Supersprint]

I think this thread should be about if it's better to have a good power delivery, where the car has "meat" at any rpm, or if it's better to sacrifice a bit of power in the low range, to keep the best let's say after 4500 rpm, when you drive fast.

Basically it's a question if you want to go with a big turbo or more extreme cams, a bigger exhaust and a direct intake, to get the best on track or a fast B-road, or if you prefer a more balanced setup that keeps you free to do an overtake without downshifting 3 gears to pass that lorry...

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by Gardus@Supersprint

I think this thread should be about if it's better to have a good power delivery, where the car has "meat" at any rpm, or if it's better to sacrifice a bit of power in the low range, to keep the best let's say after 4500 rpm, when you drive fast.

Basically it's a question if you want to go with a big turbo or more extreme cams, a bigger exhaust and a direct intake, to get the best on track or a fast B-road, or if you prefer a more balanced setup that keeps you free to do an overtake without downshifting 3 gears to pass that lorry...

That is what this thread is about. The only difference here is that it's an attempt to draw a clear line between torque & horsepower, which is difficult simply because one is the product of the other. So I don't think it makes much sense for anyone to say that it's all about the torque or all about the horsepower because both "work together" to propel the car. As for passing that lorry, I like to be able to do it without downshifting at all.....and that takes torque!

[Coheed]

Instead of saying "I like torque", it is more accurate to claim "I like low-end horsepower."

I prefer the rush of a linear powerband, to the running-out-of-steam feeling of an engine that peaks too quickly.

Would the FT86 be as great a car if the power output looked like this?



Lots of mid range torque and HP.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Lets be realistic here. For a street driven car, big torque is much more useful than big HP. Why? Simple--we spend little of our time at or near redline. Much more time is spent in the lower RPM range where torque is more important.

Personally, I have no interest in a car that has a low torque output and makes maximum HP way up in the rev range. That might be fun on a track, but not so much on the street.

I redline everyday, multiple times a day. I love spinning out little 4 bangers. That doesn't at all mean I don't have a torque monster V8 in my future.

[madfast]

low tq/high rpm engines have to make use of gearing, but lets not forget that in real life there is a practical limit to gearing.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

I redline everyday, multiple times a day. I love spinning out little 4 bangers. That doesn't at all mean I don't have a torque monster V8 in my future.

I believe you. But even so, you still spend far more time well under redline than you do at or near redline.

[A5D5TRYR]

Originally Posted by arghx7

For those of you with some fuzzy understanding of calculus, think of the power curve as sort of like the 2nd derivative of the torque curve.

Actually I think it would be the other way around.

For example, velocity is the derivative of position. If position changes as a square function (p = x^2) then the velocity will change as a linear function and if position changes as a linear function than the velocity is constant.

In your examples the torque was flat for a good portion of the graph so this would be the constant while the horsepower climbs. It isn't really this simple though cause horsepower IS a function of torque, so in that respect it's dependent on it. Hmm, the further I go the more I think I should've just kept it to myself. Haha, probably just made myself sound stupid trying to correct you.

[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

I believe you. But even so, you still spend far more time well under redline than you do at or near redline.

Absolutely. The car spends it's life under 4-5k. I itch for low end torque, but that's not something low displacement four bangers are good at.

[Coheed]

What is more enjoyable to drive: A high displacement Harley, or a low displacement high revving sport bike?

Of course, if low end big TQ #s are your thing, swap in a diesel. :P

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses

Absolutely. The car spends it's life under 4-5k. I itch for low end torque, but that's not something low displacement four bangers are good at.

Unless they got a small turbo on them! Trust me.... I got a 2.0T that makes 260 lb.ft at just 1500 RPM!

[OrbitalEllipses]

FI equals the playing field for sure.