COVID Developments and News

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Spuds

So you are suggesting that the cure for COVID-19 is to reduce obesity. Do you have numeric statistics showing the increased risk of COVID-19 hospitalizations due to being obese? I'm willing to consider it if there is a correlation anywhere near the ballpark of the vaccine. We would still have to prove causation, and then come up with a way to promote it, how much resistance that would face, and the chances of weight loss success vs just getting an inoculation. Additionally, we would need to look at incubation time and transmissibility before I could get on board.

I think it's an interesting idea, and you should pursue further research. Let us know when you have some reliable data.

Data posted from CDC in my last post.

300,000 deaths a year could be prevented by abolishing obesity alone un related to covid, then factoring in the profound benefit to helping reduce covid cases, reduce covid mortalities, and improving outlook on top of that.

Same goes for smokers.

Far greater bang for buck to end obesity and/or smoking than a vaccine. Even if vaccine had 100% success rate which it doesn't. All things equated its probably closer to 40-60% success. Mandate a vaccine, ok fine. Then mandate ending obesity and smoking too, if you really care about peoples health and well being, the cost and burden on the medical system etc... then you would have no problem with mandates that helped end smoking and obesity.

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by Spuds

In the US, the vaccine is available to everyone.

It took far longer than a year to get it available to everyone from initial onset of the pandemic.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Everything is always about the vaccine, why not focus on strengthening your natural immune system?

thank u for your concern trolling, great job

[86TOYO2k17]

Originally Posted by MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires

thank u for your concern trolling, great job

Great rebuttal



Ultramaroon in several posts a few pages ago requested solutions. I have offered them.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

1 year to end it at the extreme end, which is shorter timeline than getting vaccine available to everyone

If you believe that 1 year can fix obesity "at the extreme" you have never had to deal with weight loss. Think of it as alcoholism without the ability to stop cold turkey. As someone who has basically fought the "good fight" against it personally all my life, it just ain't that simple.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

If you believe that 1 year can fix obesity "at the extreme" you have never had to deal with weight loss. Think of it as alcoholism without the ability to stop cold turkey. As someone who has basically fought the "good fight" against it personally all my life, it just ain't that simple.

Thank you! People dropping bodyfat too quickly will always result in some sort of rubber band effect and cause them to bloat.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

anyone can drop 1% of Total body weight per week doing so in a healthy manner. Many people would be substantially healthier dropping even just 10% of total body weight. For obese and morbidly obese individuals that number could be 20-50% which would be 20-50 weeks.

Take longer than a vaccine, at this point starting today sure, starting Feb 2020 they would have been done before 2021. But you never heard any talk about methods to strengthening natural immune system, and to better be able to cope with and handle fighting off the virus if infected. It was always lock down, masks, vaccine, mandates etc...

The same measures you are willing to take to get everyone vaccinated do the same to end obesity.

Even if people dropped body fat that quickly, not weight, bodyfat, they would rebound after the pandemic ended. Just look at the US as a whole. You really think people will stay on top of that? lol

Also, I'm in pretty good shape and cardiovascular health with no known problems, and I still got a pretty bad sinus infection recently. Not being overweight does NOT prevent you from getting a virus let alone prevent it from transmission.

While your solution is wonderful for those affected by CVD, diabetes, and other problems associated with poor health, it's not a proper solution.

[MyHybridBurnsGasAndTires]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Great rebuttal



Ultramaroon in several posts a few pages ago requested solutions. I have offered them.

you offered bad suggestions just like he did, good job?

i'm not going to waste my time giving a rebuttal to someone who is clearly arguing in bad faith, but i will mock you

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Data posted from CDC in my last post.

300,000 deaths a year could be prevented by abolishing obesity alone un related to covid, then factoring in the profound benefit to helping reduce covid cases, reduce covid mortalities, and improving outlook on top of that.

Same goes for smokers.

Far greater bang for buck to end obesity and/or smoking than a vaccine. Even if vaccine had 100% success rate which it doesn't. All things equated its probably closer to 40-60% success. Mandate a vaccine, ok fine. Then mandate ending obesity and smoking too, if you really care about peoples health and well being, the cost and burden on the medical system etc... then you would have no problem with mandates that helped end smoking and obesity.

How do you mandate ending obesity or smoking? I am not opposed to promoting these things, but since your own arguments are opposed to dictating what people put in their bodies I am curious as to what your proposal might be.

The vaccine is 95% effective against vanilla covid. And 80+% effective against known variants. Obesity being a factor for 30% of covid hospitalizations is still nowhere near the effectivity of the vaccine against covid.

Then there is the problem of success rate. Getting the vaccine is easy. You show up, you get inoculated, and you leave. Twice if it's the mRNA. It's a lot harder to lose weight. Many (possibly the majority) try and fail. Whereas there is nearly 100% success in administering the vaccine.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

You stated “ If you wake up gasping to breathe tomorrow, Jenny Craig isn't going to save you.”

Now reread that replacing “Jenny Craig” with “the vaccine”

What is the vaccine going to do if you woke up gasping to breathe?

Except that any clear thinking American would be fully vaccinated by now. And they reached full immunity within approx 10 weeks. All the vaccines you people refuse would be swallowed up by many other countries.

Obesity is 30% BMI or greater IIRC. How long would it take someone to lose 50 lbs, a year? And what is the typical success rate for large weight loss attempts? And how are you going to actually enforce this when many people simply can't lose a lot of weight? And lastly how can weight loss of an entire population prevent transmission, infection and mutation of the virus?


Whine about mandates for vaccination and masking.

Mandate set for a 1500 calorie diet and obligatory 30 mins cardio, 30 minutes strength 6 days per week. Ya, everyone would be on board. So glad you thought of an easier solution. ��

Let us know if/when your head clears.

Here's how we mandate anti-smoking at around $14/pack with taxes.

[Irace86.2.0]

His family tried to find him an ICU bed—43 hospitals turned them away

https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...hospitals-icu/

When Ray DeMonia was having a cardiac emergency last month, his Alabama family waited anxiously for a nearby hospital with available space in its intensive care unit. But in a state where coronavirus infections and unvaccinated patients have overwhelmed hospitals in recent months, finding an available ICU bed was an ordeal. It was so difficult, his family wrote this month, that the hospital in his hometown of Cullman, Ala., contacted 43 others in three states — and all were unable to give him the care he needed.

DeMonia, who was eventually transferred to a Mississippi hospital about 200 miles away, died at 73 on Sept. 1 — three days shy of his birthday.

Raven DeMonia, his daughter, told The Washington Post on Sunday that it was “shocking” when the family was told that dozens of ICUs were unable to treat her father.
“It was like, ‘What do you mean?’ ” she said when she found out her father was being airlifted to a Mississippi hospital. “I never thought this would happen to us.”

Now, in DeMonia’s obituary, his family is urging those who remain unvaccinated to get immunized to help hospitals that have been pushed to their limits and struggling to treat emergencies not related to the pandemic. His daughter told The Post he was vaccinated against the coronavirus.
“In honor of Ray, please get vaccinated if you have not, in an effort to free up resources for non COVID related emergencies,” the family wrote. “He would not want any other family to go through what his did.”

DeMonia’s case comes as Alabama hospitals grapple with a lack of ICU resources amid a surge in patients.

Jennifer Malone, a spokeswoman for Cullman Regional Medical Center, confirmed to The Post that Ray DeMonia was “a patient in our care and was transferred to a different facility.” She declined to offer specifics of his situation, citing privacy reasons.
“The level of care he required was not available at Cullman Regional,” Malone said.
DeMonia’s case comes as Alabama hospitals grapple with a lack of ICU resources amid a surge in patients — many of whom are unvaccinated. Scott Harris, head of the Alabama Department of Public Health, said Friday that while the state’s increase in hospitalizations appears to have stabilized, there are still more patients who need ICU care than there are available beds.
“We continue to have a real crisis in Alabama with our ICU bed capacity,” Harris said at a news conference, adding that there were about 60 more ICU patients than there were open beds in the state last week.

Nearly 2,800 people in the state were hospitalized with covid-19 on Sunday, including 768 in the ICU, according to data compiled by The Washington Post. The number of total hospitalizations over a seven-day average decreased by 4 percent compared with the previous period. Although Alabama is averaging 3,641 new infections a day, that is also an improvement compared with its latest seven-day average for daily cases.
Vaccinations are also up, but with just 40 percent of residents fully immunized, Alabama still has the fourth-lowest vaccination rate among all states — ahead of Idaho, West Virginia and Wyoming, according to tracking by The Post.

After President Biden promised last week to use his power to circumvent the actions of Republican governors and elected officials who were “undermining” pandemic-relief efforts, Alabama Gov. Kay Ivey (R) challenged the president to “bring it on.” Ivey, who has pushed for the unvaccinated to get their shots but said the state would never mandate it, allocated $12 million in federal funding this month to bring travel nurses to Alabama hospitals experiencing staffing shortages, such as the ones that DeMonia’s family encountered.

Born on Sept. 4, 1947, DeMonia followed his father’s path in appreciating, finding and selling antiques at furniture auctions, according to the Cullman Times. When he married his wife, Patricia, in 1972, he joked to the newspaper that he “had to indoctrinate her into antiques.” He would eventually also become an auctioneer, a career in which his jovial spirit and recognizable calls — “Hey, bidda, bidda, bidda!” — would make him a decades-long community stalwart in Cullman, 50 miles north of Birmingham.
As the owner of DeMonia’s Antiques and Auctions for about 40 years, he would go as far as Chicago or New Jersey if it meant there was a good find, his daughter said. He once found a painting by French impressionist Claude Monet in an estate sale that eventually sold at an auction in Huntsville for $38,000.
“Not many people can say they’ve held a Monet,” he told the Times.
Raven DeMonia, 38, of Raleigh recalled how he loved Alabama Crimson Tide football and the music of Kiss, the Allman Brothers Band and the Eagles. She reveled in watching “Antiques Roadshow” with her father, saying he treated it like she approached “Jeopardy!” and would nail the pricing estimates.

“I always got a kick out of him doing that because he was always right on the money,” she told The Post. “He knew so much about antiques, and I was always trying to learn from him.”
Ray DeMonia suffered a stroke in April 2020 during the early days of the pandemic, she said, but was able to find care within three hours at a Birmingham hospital that was “covid-free.” He called her from his hospital bed last year and sounded like his normal self, his daughter said. He was eventually vaccinated, and he hoped the coronavirus situation in the community would improve so he could get back to in-person antique shows and auctions.
“He knew what the vaccine meant for his health and what it meant to staying alive,” she said. “He said, ‘I just want to get back to shaking hands with people, selling stuff and talking antiques.’ ”
On the evening of Aug. 23, Ray DeMonia had heart problems and was taken to Cullman Regional. The next morning, about 12 hours after he was admitted, his daughter said her mother got a call saying that the staff had tried 43 hospitals without any luck in getting him a specialized cardiac ICU bed. They were, however, able to find an open ICU bed at Rush Foundation Hospital in Meridian, Miss.

Malone, the Alabama hospital’s spokeswoman, said situations such as the one experienced by DeMonia have been an “ongoing problem” reported by doctors at Cullman Regional and hospitals throughout the state.
“When patients are transported to other facilities to receive care that they need, that’s becoming increasingly more difficult because all hospitals are experiencing an increased lack of bed space,” she said.
The family made the 200-mile drive back and forth from Alabama to Mississippi over the next week, where the Meridian hospital gave DeMonia “wonderful” care, his daughter said.
Then, the family got the call they feared: DeMonia had died.
When the time came to write the obituary, Raven DeMonia said, her mother wanted to add the line about vaccination as part of their remembrance. The move was similar to that of others across the country whose loved ones have died because of the resurgent virus or the toll it has taken on hospitals.
The daughter said the response to the obituary and her father’s story was not something she or any of the family had expected. She said she hopes the story of her father will be yet another warning to people that they don’t have to go through what his family experienced.

“Dad would just want everything to get back to normal,” she said. “If people would just realize the strain on hospital resources that’s happening right now, then that would be really amazing. But I don’t know if that’ll ever happen.”

[Irace86.2.0]

As a former personal trainer/manager with a BS in Exercise Physiology, I can say that the notion of ending obesity or trying to mandate it away is nonsense, but no one needs a degree to know that—just a few brain cells can figure that out.

There is 3500 calories in a pound of fat, so a pound of fat loss per week requires a 500 calorie deficit a day. Eating less than someone’s BMR leads to muscle waisting and a slowing of the metabolism and a compromising to regeneration and to the immune system, and losing more than two pounds a week typically means some muscle is lost too, so people need to eat enough to be at or over tgeir BMR, but still in a deficit. Walking a mile burns about 100 calories or more, depending on weight, so burning enough to eat enough while still being in a caloric deficit isn’t easy, unless someone has an active lifestyle or job. Unlikely if someone is obese to begin with. Weight loss isn’t easy.

Obesity is more often defined by BMI than body fat percentage. BMI is not a percentage score; it is a ratio of height to weight. Most obese people have over 50lbs to lose, but at a pound a week, that is almost a year of perfect weight loss.



Obviously it is ludicrous to expect a vaccine to compare to weight loss or smoking cessation or anything else that requires behavior modification. Getting a vaccine is the easiest thing anyone could do and provides the most to gain, even over masking or other continuous behavior modifications that often are not consistent or fail.

We expected breakthrough cases and deaths because the efficacy of the vaccine was only 95% to initial variants. That means 5% would develop no immunity or weak enough immunity to get COVID. Five percent is a lot of Americans, but had we reached 95% of society vaccinated, we would expect herd immunity to drop the transmission rate for that 5%. As is the case, we have failed the 5%, and other variants have dropped the efficacy for not getting COVID, yet the vaccine is still really efficacious (99%) at preventing hospitalizations and deaths. Nevertheless, we have so many people who are unvaccinated that hospitals are overwhelmed, so we are seeing 1500-2000 deaths from COVID a day now and more collateral deaths from a constipated healthcare system. It is too bad.

I’m for mandatory vaccine mandates.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

Fat people? Why the animosity towards obesity?

Obesity is a serious wide spread pandemic. That is directly link to covid mortality rates.

Everything is always about the vaccine, why not focus on strengthening your natural immune system? Tons of people are still contracting, spreading, and dying from covid who have been vaccinated. It’s unfortunate the vaccine isn’t more effective. Need to look at more possible methods of protection.

How is that going to stop the run on hospitals? Are we all of a sudden going to magically, collectively go on a diet? Come on. Bring something actionable to the table.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, and healthy young adults are dying. Healthy kids are dying. Most people are fat not because of simply eating too much, it's because they eat shit food with empty calories because they can't afford real food. Arguing that everyone should simply go on a diet is not only unrealistic, it's downright callous.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by 86TOYO2k17

So you are suggesting If I wake up tomorrow struggling to breath, and then administer the vaccine at the moment it will provide benefit?.

Are you suggesting the same with weight loss?
And I still have no idea how you think this is an alternative to the vaccine.
Also, obesity is not contagious.