sporty sedans?

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Assessing reliability using anecdotal stories is usually misleading because of limited sample size. I also wouldn’t personally judge a car’s reliability based on other models in the lineup unless they share significant components.

Usually best to use model-specific data from a wide sample size.

I understand what you're saying, but other considerations are design, engineering, materials, manufacturing, and reliability based on number and type of TSB's, Recalls, Service Bulletins and Advisories that used to be free at Alldata DIY. It's an eye opener comparing data between any Toyota series vehicle to other manufacturers.

I don't know if there's an alternative free source since Alldata DIY went to subscription only, maybe someone else does.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by Atmo

I understand what you're saying, but other considerations are design, engineering, materials, manufacturing, and reliability based on number and type of TSB's, Recalls, Service Bulletins and Advisories that used to be free at Alldata DIY. It's an eye opener comparing data between any Toyota series vehicle to other manufacturers.

I don't know if there's an alternative free source since Alldata DIY went to subscription only, maybe someone else does.

Yeah for sure certain brands like Toyota/Lexus tend to do well overall. For a brand like Kia that’s changed and improved recently, you’ll probably get more accuracy looking at model-specific data.

[HKz]

toyota's overall reliability is still there, ain't some bs... there are multiple organizations that actually do the statistical work for us instead of everyone using their one off stories to determine what is reliable, as if no one has taken a stats class here! for a mass market brand that sell as many vehicles as they do, toyota/lexus being consistently at the top for many years has to be applauded...unless you're an illuminati believer and think the whole system is rigged!

and sure the twins aren't "real toyotas" but the projects are based on toyota's requirements & specifications and for at least a couple model years, the twins were the most reliable toyota AND subaru!..i think that is very respectable, especially considering subarus haven't consistently been among the most reliable.

but i agree in general, most manufacturers are relatively close to each other when it comes to overall number of problems, but it is still all just a lottery ticket that you are gambling on.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Assessing reliability using anecdotal stories is usually misleading because of limited sample size. e.

That was sort of my point, and most "reliability" studies are based on anecdotal stories. Owners are asked to rate how "reliable" their cars are but aren't asked to specifically prove how reliable they were. Consumer Reports and JD Powers goes a little deeper but still the sample sizes are only so big.

This PDF that talks about both. I read this a couple of years back and found it interesting.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by HKz

but i agree in general, most manufacturers are relatively close to each other when it comes to overall number of problems, but it is still all just a lottery ticket that you are gambling on.

That's pretty much all I was trying to say.

[DarkSideFRS]

Originally Posted by HKz

and sure the twins aren't "real toyotas" but the projects are based on toyota's requirements & specifications and for at least a couple model years, the twins were the most reliable toyota AND subaru!

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I loved the MR2, but in it's 150,000 miles, I had to replace the timing belt 3 times (it always broke before the maintenance interval), the driver's side window register 3 times, the passenger side register once, the boots twice, the air conditioning compressor, the sunroof leaked on occasion and ultimately it began to burn oil around 110,000 miles forcing me to get rid of it. It also went from red to bright pink as an exterior color.

That sounds like 'car built in 1985 problems' not 'toyota problems'

former owner of a D21 Nissan

[dpfarr]

My neighbor got a brand new Kia k5 gt line and was telling about “ghosting cars”. I shrugged and assumed it might have like turbo 6 or something. Thing has less power than a twin.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

That sounds like 'car built in 1985 problems' not 'toyota problems'

former owner of a D21 Nissan

Perhaps.

[Ohio Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

That was sort of my point, and most "reliability" studies are based on anecdotal stories.

These studies also aren't really done by people versed in cars, so a dealer visit by a person not understanding how lane centering is supposed to work and a dealer visit for a blown engine are treated the same. Plus for actual reliability concerns by owners you'd want to differentiate between issues that prevent you from driving (or worse, leave you stranded in the middle of a trip) and issues that don't affect the car's main transportation capabilities (such as a non working radio (Teslas need not apply)). And add a cost impact to the mix (a $10 repair isn't the same as a $1000 repair).
Sadly nobody does it well enough, although I am sure the data is there (OEMs for sure, large dealer networks, perhaps DOT of certain states with safety inspections).

Still, the anecdotal evidence around the world of the reliability of Japanese (and lately Korean) brands vs the unreliability of American and European brands is pretty consistent, so I'm sure there's a large grain of truth to that.

[AnalogMan]

Second the vote for the WRX.

I didn't think it was my 'style' either (being 60-something), but I don't care what anyone else thinks of what I drive. I only care about what I think (besides, there's a guy in town even older than I am, with a ZZ Top quality beard, who also drives a WRX).

Since you're in New Jersey, you probably want something that will go in the snow. Meaning, FWD or AWD (yeah, RWD and good snow tires works just fine, but why not have the extra traction). The WRX meets that criterion. Plus lets you have a manual, which is important for me.

For me, the only thing about the WRX that I don't like is the rock-hard stiff ride. Encroaching arthritis makes the ride tolerable for by increasingly creaky body for up to about 3 hours. If your under 40-ish, it would probably be fine.

Stinger - on my short list to replace the WRX at some point. The only two downsides (for me) are the lack of a manual transmission, and non-existent rear visibility (microscopic back window).

Mazda 3 - you can get a stick, but the turbo engine is automatic only (though with the auto you can also get AWD).

Previous generation Legacy (up to 2019) - the one that came with the N/A 3.6 flat six. Automatic only, and not an 'exciting' car, but I love the bigger N/A flat six over the ubiquitous turbo-fours that seem to be in everything these days. AWD too.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by DarkSideFRS

Nah. They still suck. The elantra motor recall was just as bad as the valve spring recall on the FRS lol. They didn't have enough motors for the recall and a lot of ppl had to wait months to get a replacement motor. I know some ppl who were affected. They never bought any hyundai or KIA products again

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/25/tech/...all/index.html

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/hyundai...gine-problems/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...ine-fires.html

Interesting you bring up recalls. What did you think of Toyota 10-11 years ago, during which they've had one of the worst recalls if not the absolute worst recall in history in regards to their stuck pedals?

[Atmo]

Originally Posted by KR-S

Interesting you bring up recalls. What did you think of Toyota 10-11 years ago, during which they've had one of the worst recalls if not the absolute worst recall in history in regards to their stuck pedals?

As bad as the Toyota UI recall was, it's dwarfed in any measure by the ongoing Takata airbag recall.

[HKz]

Originally Posted by DarkSideFRS

Over 60 K on my first twin before she got totalled, just passed 70 k on my 2nd one. Get over it, clearly you upset the Subaru gods maybe in a past life and looks like you ain't gonna change their minds during this one.