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Old 04-25-2020, 05:09 PM   #43
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Old 04-25-2020, 05:33 PM   #44
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Yeah, continue to look for a vacuum leak.
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Old 04-25-2020, 07:31 PM   #45
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Uh, who exactly did the tune? If you're certain that it is not a vacuum leak and/or cannot find said vacuum leak, it could very well be the tune that needs to be revised. It happens.

As for you not wanting to drive with a lean engine, I totally understand that. I've driven with a lean engine when I installed my SC for 7 months. No damages whatsoever, but i'm not saying that you should too. Your engine could run normally when it's warmed up, just like how mine was.
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Old 04-25-2020, 07:52 PM   #46
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Uh, who exactly did the tune? If you're certain that it is not a vacuum leak and/or cannot find said vacuum leak, it could very well be the tune that needs to be revised. It happens.

As for you not wanting to drive with a lean engine, I totally understand that. I've driven with a lean engine when I installed my SC for 7 months. No damages whatsoever, but i'm not saying that you should too. Your engine could run normally when it's warmed up, just like how mine was.
It is the CARB tune. He has said that multiple times, so Edelbrock did the tune.
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Old 04-26-2020, 04:39 PM   #47
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I brought one of my buddies over, long story short no leak found. I did realize that, before the SC I was idling around 900 and now it want to sit at 650, and if I hold at 900 the LTFT and STFT are much better.

Everything holds pressure. We capped off the intake and smoked through the left side PCV hose, with the BPV open and the back of the SC capped. No smoke, anywhere. This cannot be a vacuum leak, ever part of it has been checked twice now. We sprayed the injectors, the base of the runners, the TB, the hoses etc with cleaner, no RPM change. We tried spraying water, no stumble and no slurping. This looks like a vacuum leak but someone needs to point to a vacuum leak spot that I haven't checked. I think it's something other than a vacuum leak at this point.
(Both PCV valves, TB, brake booster, EGR solenoid, runners, BPV)

The manifold uses pressure to open the BPV, when you open the throttle up the vacuum drops allowing boost. The BPV holds open, moving at 5 in/hg and full open at 10. It doesn't drop pressure over 10 minutes. We tried disconnecting the BPV and capping the vacuum tube at the back of the SC, it had no effect on LTFT. While hooked up, BPV pulls in (open, bypassing the SC,) and releases when I blip it. So the BPV is good.

BPV=GOOD
Leaks=GOOD

What else is there? The computer thinks I'm lean, raising FT to adjust for it.

At this point I think that the tune sets the idle RPM too low (650 instead of 900) and sets the commanded AFR to 14.67 when it needs to be leaner. Or the tune is reading the o2 sensor wrong, and is seeing it lean when it's not.

Does anyone have an Edelbrock tuning contact I can reach out to? I'm wondering if they sent a tune from like a 2016 or something by accident?

Moar logs
https://datazap.me/u/snowtaipan/log-...3?log=0&data=7
(BPV disconnected)
https://datazap.me/u/snowtaipan/p017...l?log=0&data=7
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Old 04-26-2020, 10:58 PM   #48
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I'm no expert but I got curious. Looking at the beginning of one of your logs before the engine is started, MAP and atmospheric pressure should match. (I think. Right?) If that's the case, your MAP is reading 0.12 bar low. I think that's enough of an offset to drive the AFR lean.
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Old 04-27-2020, 12:51 AM   #49
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I'm no expert but I got curious. Looking at the beginning of one of your logs before the engine is started, MAP and atmospheric pressure should match. (I think. Right?) If that's the case, your MAP is reading 0.12 bar low. I think that's enough of an offset to drive the AFR lean.
I don't think that is a problem. He is at 5000 ft which is why he is at 0.88 bar. I would need a tuner's opinion, but I don't believe the atmospheric pressure is measured; they probably add an arbitrary valuee in there. US cars use MAP; we don't have a separate atmospheric pressure sensor. If they were the same value then they would also both change to vacuum and boost, but they never do. Atmosphere is always fixed. Maybe they include it so someone could get a rough number of relative pressures as a calculation difference against atmospheric pressure. I don't know.

I don't entirely understand this statement. Maybe a tuner knows. Maybe the CARB tune is entirely MAF based. I don't know.

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On USA region ROMs when using the CPC pressure sensor as an input into the ECU the atmospheric pressure reading will be incorrect (as the ECU uses the CPC Pressure sensor for the atmospheric pressure reading).

By enabling the check box, the atmospheric pressure will be calculated from the MAP sensor and will read correctly.
https://www.ecutek.com/Products/Trad...tures#brz-atmo
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:12 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
I don't think that is a problem. He is at 5000 ft which is why he is at 0.88 bar. I would need a tuner's opinion, but I don't believe the atmospheric pressure is measured; they probably add an arbitrary valuee in there. US cars use MAP; we don't have a separate atmospheric pressure sensor. If they were the same value then they would also both change to vacuum and boost, but they never do. Atmosphere is always fixed. Maybe they include it so someone could get a rough number of relative pressures as a calculation difference against atmospheric pressure. I don't know.

I don't entirely understand this statement. Maybe a tuner knows. Maybe the CARB tune is entirely MAF based. I don't know.



https://www.ecutek.com/Products/Trad...tures#brz-atmo
That makes much more sense than the atmospheric pressure reading exactly 1 bar, especially at that altitude. I forgot about that point.
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Old 04-27-2020, 01:53 AM   #51
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it s not dangerous to drive, afr is in check and trims are good when applying load.. it is NOT driving lean, actually if you have a leak, chances are you are running rich

i see only an excessive ltft at idle, but not the typical behaviour of a vacuum leak.. it could just be an erratic maf scaling around idle and nothing more. In that case you need a custom tune

What you really need to do now is to log a normal driving on the road and apply a bit more load, if the trims are alright while driving and in open loop, MAYBE you don t have any leak

If after a maf rescale (and so the fuel trims lower) the car runs good and it s not dumping huge amount of fuel during idle then it was only a "bad" tune

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Old 04-27-2020, 02:35 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowtaipan View Post
I brought one of my buddies over, long story short no leak found. I did realize that, before the SC I was idling around 900 and now it want to sit at 650, and if I hold at 900 the LTFT and STFT are much better.

Everything holds pressure. We capped off the intake and smoked through the left side PCV hose, with the BPV open and the back of the SC capped. No smoke, anywhere. This cannot be a vacuum leak, ever part of it has been checked twice now. We sprayed the injectors, the base of the runners, the TB, the hoses etc with cleaner, no RPM change. We tried spraying water, no stumble and no slurping. This looks like a vacuum leak but someone needs to point to a vacuum leak spot that I haven't checked. I think it's something other than a vacuum leak at this point.
(Both PCV valves, TB, brake booster, EGR solenoid, runners, BPV)

The manifold uses pressure to open the BPV, when you open the throttle up the vacuum drops allowing boost. The BPV holds open, moving at 5 in/hg and full open at 10. It doesn't drop pressure over 10 minutes. We tried disconnecting the BPV and capping the vacuum tube at the back of the SC, it had no effect on LTFT. While hooked up, BPV pulls in (open, bypassing the SC,) and releases when I blip it. So the BPV is good.

BPV=GOOD
Leaks=GOOD

What else is there? The computer thinks I'm lean, raising FT to adjust for it.

At this point I think that the tune sets the idle RPM too low (650 instead of 900) and sets the commanded AFR to 14.67 when it needs to be leaner. Or the tune is reading the o2 sensor wrong, and is seeing it lean when it's not.

Does anyone have an Edelbrock tuning contact I can reach out to? I'm wondering if they sent a tune from like a 2016 or something by accident?

Moar logs
https://datazap.me/u/snowtaipan/log-...3?log=0&data=7
(BPV disconnected)
https://datazap.me/u/snowtaipan/p017...l?log=0&data=7
I think I figured something out. I did an idle log. I have never done one. I did it just to see what my MAP at idle shows to compare to yours, and it shows 0.32 bar, which is 0.68 bar below atmospheric or 9.86 psi of vacuum, but my gauge showed roughly 20 psi of vacuum. See the log below where I tried to replicate your startup logs, which was a warm start--not a cold start (this is a custom tune on E85, just FYI):

https://datazap.me/u/jirace/test-com...0&data=8-25-29

Honestly, I am not a tuner, so I am lost on why the log doesn't show more vacuum. My gauge is accurate. I know ECUTEK has limits on boost (or at least 19 psi was all it could log), but I don't know if it has limits on low MAP values too or what. In short, maybe the MAP is fine on your logs.

I'm honestly kind of lost. We can't compare fuel tables because of my 770cc port injectors and E85.

Going back to your trouble codes, it said the direct injectors in bank 1 were faulty and you got a lean condition. I don't know if one of your direct injectors failed causing a lean situation, or if your direct injector seals failed, but the latter could introduce unmetered air under piston expansion and could result in a poor idle because of compression loss. Outside of that and a bad o2 sensor or crack in your manifold, I just don't know man. I need to hand this one over to someone more knowledgeable.

@tomm.brz
@steve99

What is normal guys? Should his atmospheric pressure be 1.0 if he is at 5000 feet. Mine is 1.01 and stays there. My MAP starts at 1.01 and goes down. His starts at 0.88 and goes down, but his atmospheric pressure says 1.0. Why doesn't our logs indicate more vacuum at idle? My gauge says 20 psi of vacuum, but my idle log says like 9 psi. I know the gauge is accurate.
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Old 04-27-2020, 03:37 PM   #53
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how can 20 psi be a vacuum, if "20" would be 5-6 psi over atmospheric sea-level value?
it should show 20psi - 14.5psi = 5.5 more or less?
or maybe it is like 20 Hg of vacuum under atmospheric? don t own one so not used to them, but it makes sense since it would be around 0.35bar (5-6 psi)

Ecu gives 5-9 psi (depending on rpm) during idle because it is an absolute value of pressure, your boost gauge is a relative value




No it shouldn t show 1bar at 5000feet, but lower than 0,9.. honestly i m clueless at how US cars work about atmospheric pressure measurement though
Without direct access to the tune, only way to judge is to take a log (with ecutek cause we need more values as possible to be logged) while driving in the street

it is entirely possible the tune from edelbrock is not good for your car

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Old 04-27-2020, 06:21 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0 View Post
I think I figured something out. I did an idle log. I have never done one. I did it just to see what my MAP at idle shows to compare to yours, and it shows 0.32 bar, which is 0.68 bar below atmospheric or 9.86 psi of vacuum, but my gauge showed roughly 20 psi of vacuum. See the log below where I tried to replicate your startup logs, which was a warm start--not a cold start (this is a custom tune on E85, just FYI):

https://datazap.me/u/jirace/test-com...0&data=8-25-29

Honestly, I am not a tuner, so I am lost on why the log doesn't show more vacuum. My gauge is accurate. I know ECUTEK has limits on boost (or at least 19 psi was all it could log), but I don't know if it has limits on low MAP values too or what. In short, maybe the MAP is fine on your logs.

I'm honestly kind of lost. We can't compare fuel tables because of my 770cc port injectors and E85.

Going back to your trouble codes, it said the direct injectors in bank 1 were faulty and you got a lean condition. I don't know if one of your direct injectors failed causing a lean situation, or if your direct injector seals failed, but the latter could introduce unmetered air under piston expansion and could result in a poor idle because of compression loss. Outside of that and a bad o2 sensor or crack in your manifold, I just don't know man. I need to hand this one over to someone more knowledgeable.

@tomm.brz
@steve99

What is normal guys? Should his atmospheric pressure be 1.0 if he is at 5000 feet. Mine is 1.01 and stays there. My MAP starts at 1.01 and goes down. His starts at 0.88 and goes down, but his atmospheric pressure says 1.0. Why doesn't our logs indicate more vacuum at idle? My gauge says 20 psi of vacuum, but my idle log says like 9 psi. I know the gauge is accurate.
I know at idle there has to be vacuum, opening the BPV. As RPMs go up, vacuum at the top drops, shutting the BPV and creating boost. The BPV retracts (opens) at 10in/hg or 5 PSI vacuum.

If an injector went out, I'd think I'd have a misfire code or detonation, wouldn't I? What would a gad injector do to timing advance?

I pinned out both O2 sensors, both are good, but I noticed that A/F sensor 1 reads normal but O2 sensor 2 reads super rich (It should be at most .55v, its reading .8!)

I also had new codes: P0171 P0170 and P117B
The only thing all three have in common is the ECM and fuel pressure. I can see that my pump isn't at max output, but my fuel rail pressure doesn't have a reading at all.
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Old 04-27-2020, 07:29 PM   #55
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I know at idle there has to be vacuum, opening the BPV. As RPMs go up, vacuum at the top drops, shutting the BPV and creating boost. The BPV retracts (opens) at 10in/hg or 5 PSI vacuum.

If an injector went out, I'd think I'd have a misfire code or detonation, wouldn't I? What would a gad injector do to timing advance?

I pinned out both O2 sensors, both are good, but I noticed that A/F sensor 1 reads normal but O2 sensor 2 reads super rich (It should be at most .55v, its reading .8!)

I also had new codes: P0171 P0170 and P117B
The only thing all three have in common is the ECM and fuel pressure. I can see that my pump isn't at max output, but my fuel rail pressure doesn't have a reading at all.
I still think the direct injector failed or the seal failed. Why would the direct injectors keep getting called out and a lean condition? It is hard to diagnose these things online. I replaced the injector seals. See my build for images. It really isn’t too hard or laborious to do.
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Old 04-27-2020, 10:50 PM   #56
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Your issues sound almost identical to mine. I spent nearly 2 months diagnosing it and it ended up being the BPV. Here's my thread if you want to compare datalogs and such:

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=137808

The TL;DR is that it was a combination of an absolutely garbage tune from Edelbrock as well as a faulty BPV which didn't seem faulty under multiple smoke/pressure tests.
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