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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 04-17-2020, 01:26 PM   #155
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Once or twice on a larger course for sure
If 3rd is required with the 4.1 FD, seems going with the 4.3 and more shifting might be a good plan.

4.3 and 15" Rivals would make 3rd much more usable, and 2nd much better in slow sections.
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:14 PM   #156
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If 3rd is required with the 4.1 FD, seems going with the 4.3 and more shifting might be a good plan.

4.3 and 15" Rivals would make 3rd much more usable, and 2nd much better in slow sections.
Sorry, I didn't convey my sentiment properly, in my experience, lots of edge cases, lots of riding 2nd gear approaching elements at ~60mph at my locals, but we have access to an unusually large Nationals level site. I have zero desire for shorter gearing and if anything need to tweak my rev limiter to allow me to ride the top of 2nd better at ~61-62 mph (right now it bleeds off speed instead of holding, silly OFT tune)

Are you implying going to a 15" wheel? Good luck finding a 5x100 pattern 15" wheel in a good offset without going custom, I've come up empty also trying to use that BFG 245/15 on a newer car, BMW and Miatas still use 15's but most are 4 hole pattern and rather low offset which won't be great for this car.

I get the sentiment, on paper the dig from being out of the power seems to happen just as often as being in that gray area on the 2-3 shift, while they're both worth time I think there's a higher risk for lower reward on going for third gear when your competitors don't have to. But if you can make it work for you then you might have found something.
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Old 04-17-2020, 03:41 PM   #157
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Are you implying going to a 15" wheel? Good luck finding a 5x100
Yep, I realize custom wheels would most likely be required.

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being out of the power seems to happen just as often as being in that gray area on the 2-3 shift
When you only shift a few times a year, a blown shift is a real possibility.

But if I'm shifting every autocross I might get good at it. =)
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Old 04-17-2020, 05:14 PM   #158
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15's are hard to fit...brake clearance isn't too bad but the position of the tie rod makes things tough.

There are only a couple 15 inch rally wheels that fit, and they're not light.

Some of the rally people modify their tie rods to fit more wheels but that's probably not STX legal.

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Old 05-04-2020, 08:25 AM   #159
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FYI, the newest cars are now officially legal in STX. From the 2020 rulebook, Appendix A, STX:

Scion
FR-S
Subaru
BRZ (2013-20)
Toyota
86 (2020)

I guess someone else could write to get the 2017 - 2019 86 explicitly called out, but at this point I'd expect a protest to get tossed anyway given the BRZ is listed for all years.
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Old 05-04-2020, 11:43 AM   #160
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The newer 86 was already STX legal.
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:22 AM   #161
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How often are you guys shifting into 3rd?

Is the 4.3 final drive on later cars a plus or minus?

2019 nationals videos seem to be all 2nd gear.
Here is my only event in STX.



There were 2 extended periods on the limiter. Around the 25 second mark with the fence to the left and then the last 5 or so seconds of the course. I tried grabbing 3rd through the finish, but I'd either slide the car too much and scrub off speed or clip one of the last cones trying to avoid that.

Car is a 2016 model with limiter at 7850. I anticipate this will be pretty typical for me, so in my world, the shorter gearing would be very frustrating.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:18 AM   #162
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So you're hitting 64 mph on the limiter?

With a 4.3 and a shift to 3rd you would still be at 5700 at 64 mph.
Would that feel like you're lugging it too much?

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I tried grabbing 3rd through the finish, but...
If you were using 3rd on most courses you would get better at it.

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There were 2 extended periods on the limiter.
Around the 25 second mark with the fence to the left and then the last 5 or so seconds of the course.


so in my world, the shorter gearing would be very frustrating.
In my world, being on the limiter for five+ seconds would be very frustrating.
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Old 05-11-2020, 11:54 AM   #163
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So you're hitting 64 mph on the limiter?

With a 4.3 and a shift to 3rd you would still be at 5700 at 64 mph.
Would that feel like you're lugging it too much?


If you were using 3rd on most courses you would get better at it.


In my world, being on the limiter for five+ seconds would be very frustrating.
Not sure on the MPH, but something like that.

No issues with the mechanics of the shift. You just had to be perfect in the 5-10 seconds leading up to the shift or risk losing momentum or blowing the run with a cone or spin. And I found more time being more aggressive thru that leading section than I found by upshifting.

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Old 05-11-2020, 12:49 PM   #164
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I expect that the 4.3 will require 8000 RPM and taller tires if they'll fit, like 245/45/17 or going to 18s. Dunno if they make those in A052 though.

I like the shorter gearing on mine but I'm not trying to be competitive.
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Old 05-11-2020, 02:47 PM   #165
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I expect that the 4.3 will require 8000 RPM and taller tires if they'll fit, like 245/45/17 or going to 18s. Dunno if they make those in A052 though.

I like the shorter gearing on mine but I'm not trying to be competitive.
255/40/17 is pretty common, available in all the fast tires and a few tenths taller than the 245/40/17. For the A052's it's a half inch taller.
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:07 PM   #166
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So you're hitting 64 mph on the limiter?

With a 4.3 and a shift to 3rd you would still be at 5700 at 64 mph.
Would that feel like you're lugging it too much?


If you were using 3rd on most courses you would get better at it.


In my world, being on the limiter for five+ seconds would be very frustrating.
Sounds like you would want to shift here then:



3rd gear you hit a brick wall, unless it's a long long section where I'd get high into 60s I avoid 3rd gear, and/or if it's a finish. The payoff isn't something you think it is
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Old 05-11-2020, 04:45 PM   #167
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I did the math on a higher rev limiter a few months back (looking at the 58-62 mph range), not sure where it went, but even 3-4 mph faster over a few hundred feet was something like 0.01s which is totally negated if you're wide on a cone by a foot because you hamfisted your braking/downshift/turn-in trying to juggle everything at once.

Looking at the Bristol video above, if you nail your up/downshifts perfectly and adjust all your throttle/braking inputs appropriately, it might add up to a tenth, at best, but I'd absolutely take the safety of not worrying about the shifts given how hectic and transitiony those sections were. If I had a free half inch of wheel diameter to add on that course I'd make the swap though.

Great example of where this car straddles the line on gearing for national style courses. I've heard some people say autox is an exercise in damage control, a 98% run is usually faster than a 102% run.
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Old 05-11-2020, 10:29 PM   #168
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whoever said you need to add the inserts, thank you. i put them in over the weekend and ripped a backroad. feels like a totally different car
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