Random Thoughts - Part III The Search for Spark (No Politics)

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by soundman98

It's sort of vague. I really only know back to about 2005 code. Have seen it plenty, but I don't think it's ever been technically correct. Code requires 2 dedicated countertop circuits that are GFCI protected, and code also requires 1 outside outlet, GFCI protected, at the front and rear of the house.

Our house, built in 1994 has one circuit for GFCI with our kitchen outlet, two outdoor outlets, 1 basement, 1 garage and 4 bathroom outlets on it. There is no GFCI breaker, only a GFCI outlet in the basement (first outlet). The circuit also originally had our basement lights on it (which I rewired to a separate circuit).

It has a bad habit of tripping when everyone is upstairs and you have to walk down two floors to reset it, usually because MomHawk is using her blow dryer at just the right time, or someone plugs the vacuum into it. I now have a habit of looking at it every time I walk by it, or out to the garage where our freezer is just to make sure the freezer power light is on.

[cjd]

All this talk reminds me I really need to sort the AFCI to our office. I had a laser printer on it, can't any more. And I have to delay power to my fanatec wheelbase or it'll trip when I power up the monitors, etc. That's with a battery backup between. Might be related to the LED strip lights I have as backlighting. Would need new conduit from the back of the house to the front and up to the second floor to run anything better, like a 20a or two. Even to replace the current one. And short slots in the breaker box too.
So many problems. Not sure I trust the last company I hired. And this isn't gonna be cheap work.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Our house, built in 1994 has one circuit for GFCI with our kitchen outlet, two outdoor outlets, 1 basement, 1 garage and 4 bathroom outlets on it. There is no GFCI breaker, only a GFCI outlet in the basement (first outlet). The circuit also originally had our basement lights on it (which I rewired to a separate circuit).

It has a bad habit of tripping when everyone is upstairs and you have to walk down two floors to reset it, usually because MomHawk is using her blow dryer at just the right time, or someone plugs the vacuum into it. I now have a habit of looking at it every time I walk by it, or out to the garage where our freezer is just to make sure the freezer power light is on.

My house built in 1976 actually has four different GFI circuit breakers. Two for outside (front and back), one for the kitchen and one for the washrooms.
When we moved in there was a GFI outlet on the one bathroom GFI circuit breaker. Of course the two didn't play well together and one or the other would trip if you caused a slight breeze nearby.

[Sapphireho]

My house has 6 gcfi breakers, including one 220 breaker for the hot tub. When I bought this house, I was confused that there were no gcfi outlets in the bathrooms in a house built in 1988. All my previous homes were so old I had never seen a gcfi breaker.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Sapphireho

My house has 6 gcfi breakers, including one 220 breaker for the hot tub. When I bought this house, I was confused that there were no gcfi outlets in the bathrooms in a house built in 1988. All my previous homes were so old I had never seen a gcfi breaker.

I didn't find out about the breakers till 4 or 5 years ago through work. Certain counties were mandating GFCI's on some of our outdoor equipment. Our variable frequency drives where playing havoc with them, finally figured out if you use the GFCI breaker the issue goes away. Dunno why.

[weederr33]

I feel I'm crazy for liking the instant coffee that comes in MREs

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by pope

You didn’t happen to do this to a house in Grand Blanc, MI? This isn’t far off from how my friend’s house is wired.

lol, never did anything in michigan. only joked many times about doing it while wiring some duplex houses!

Originally Posted by cjd

All this talk reminds me I really need to sort the AFCI to our office. I had a laser printer on it, can't any more. And I have to delay power to my fanatec wheelbase or it'll trip when I power up the monitors, etc. That's with a battery backup between. Might be related to the LED strip lights I have as backlighting. Would need new conduit from the back of the house to the front and up to the second floor to run anything better, like a 20a or two. Even to replace the current one. And short slots in the breaker box too.
So many problems. Not sure I trust the last company I hired. And this isn't gonna be cheap work.

better question-- why does it need an arc fault breaker? the tech is pretty new yet, and very unreliable. slowly getting better, a newer arc fault breaker might trip a little less.

i've installed at least 100 arc fault breakers. and removed about 50 of them due to random tripping issues. many on brand new wiring that i know has zero issues. dimmer switches cause a lot of problems, mostly when the dimmer is turned up all the way. lately, i've been pulling fewer and fewer breakers, so i think they're getting better. but no guarantees. i've mostly been using seimens brand arc faults, YMMV...

they especially seem to like to trip during dinner parties though.

worst part is that unlike gfi's, there's no real test procedure other than "check your connections" and "could be ___"...

unofficially, many contractors only leave the arc faults in for inspections, and then replace them afterwards, then re-use on the next job. everyone easily tires of tons of wasted money on callbacks for intermittent tripping issues that can't be tested, repeated, or fixed. leaving them in and trying to explain 'that's code' only leads to discouragement and lack of trust in the contractors...

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I didn't find out about the breakers till 4 or 5 years ago through work. Certain counties were mandating GFCI's on some of our outdoor equipment. Our variable frequency drives where playing havoc with them, finally figured out if you use the GFCI breaker the issue goes away. Dunno why.

could be the trip threshold. standard gfi's trip at 6mA difference to protect people. but breakers are available in higher mA trip thresholds to allow a larger variance before tripping-- generally used more for motors and similar inductive loads.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by soundman98

better question-- why does it need an arc fault breaker? the tech is pretty new yet, and very unreliable. slowly getting better, a newer arc fault breaker might trip a little less.

i've installed at least 100 arc fault breakers. and removed about 50 of them due to random tripping issues. many on brand new wiring that i know has zero issues. dimmer switches cause a lot of problems, mostly when the dimmer is turned up all the way. lately, i've been pulling fewer and fewer breakers, so i think they're getting better. but no guarantees. i've mostly been using seimens brand arc faults, YMMV...

they especially seem to like to trip during dinner parties though.

worst part is that unlike gfi's, there's no real test procedure other than "check your connections" and "could be ___"...

unofficially, many contractors only leave the arc faults in for inspections, and then replace them afterwards, then re-use on the next job. everyone easily tires of tons of wasted money on callbacks for intermittent tripping issues that can't be tested, repeated, or fixed. leaving them in and trying to explain 'that's code' only leads to discouragement and lack of trust in the contractors...

It is officially a bedroom. House built in 2003/4.

We've been here since 2014, and that printer worked great till late last year... It's a 10a surge at power up... I mean, the printer still works, but it's been on that breaker So these AFCI aren't the worst ever. Tempted to swap with one from a basement bedroom just to be sure it's a dead breaker... Say, the one that's my workshop now? Table saw is great for arc fault (ok, it's on a different circuit).

So yeah. Easy fix. Don't put an arc fault in as a replacement. But if I'm maxxing the gaming rig and the printer fires up it could be close to circuit max...

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by weederr33

I feel I'm crazy for liking the instant coffee that comes in MREs

Nope. I like all kinds of weird shit like that. Maybe I'm just crazy too.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

Hydrogenated water is poison.


OMG... I just googled it. I swear I had no idea it was really a thing.

.......and here I thought you had gone chemist on us -

"Poison is in the dose"

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Our house, built in 1994 has one circuit for GFCI with our kitchen outlet, two outdoor outlets, 1 basement, 1 garage and 4 bathroom outlets on it. There is no GFCI breaker, only a GFCI outlet in the basement (first outlet). The circuit also originally had our basement lights on it (which I rewired to a separate circuit).

It has a bad habit of tripping when everyone is upstairs and you have to walk down two floors to reset it, usually because MomHawk is using her blow dryer at just the right time, or someone plugs the vacuum into it. I now have a habit of looking at it every time I walk by it, or out to the garage where our freezer is just to make sure the freezer power light is on.

Yep, that will trip ours every time -

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by cjd

All this talk reminds me I really need to sort the AFCI to our office. I had a laser printer on it, can't any more. And I have to delay power to my fanatec wheelbase or it'll trip when I power up the monitors, etc. That's with a battery backup between. Might be related to the LED strip lights I have as backlighting. Would need new conduit from the back of the house to the front and up to the second floor to run anything better, like a 20a or two. Even to replace the current one. And short slots in the breaker box too.
So many problems. Not sure I trust the last company I hired. And this isn't gonna be cheap work.

Oh, jest get a bigger circuit breaker. -

After you install it, be sure to check around fer smoking wires -

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

.......and here I thought you had gone chemist on us -

"Poison is in the dose"

No no no.... Google it. They sell water with extra hydrogen dissolved in it for its 'antioxidant properties." Hell, I was just making a trans-fat joke. Cis? Trans?


See? It's funnier when I explain it, right? Hahaha...

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

My house built in 1976 actually has four different GFI circuit breakers. Two for outside (front and back), one for the kitchen and one for the washrooms.
When we moved in there was a GFI outlet on the one bathroom GFI circuit breaker. Of course the two didn't play well together and one or the other would trip if you caused a slight breeze nearby.

I hate to be the one tal tell ya, there @Tcoat , but them you got ain't GFI type circuit breakers -