Unofficial - CEL/SL/Idle Issue List for FR-S/BRZ Owners

[jadewbj]

Originally Posted by tbertran

What is the VIN range for the crickets? (I was struggling to find a proper way to describe it to my dealership, this is perfect!)

From the TSB

This bulletin applies to vehicles produced BEFORE the Production Change
Effective VIN shown below.

MODEL PRODUCTION CHANGE EFFECTIVE VIN
Scion FR-S JF1ZNAA1#D#709026

[egraphic]

Originally Posted by CharlieChaos

"Well the CEL / SL problem was fixed and you were put into a rental as far as the TSB goes as I told you it is not a performance issue and you can drive the car there is just a noise that you could go without fixing.

On this point, your service contact was correct, although it sounds like he did not do a good job of explaining it. My service writer at Scion explained it well - Toyota views the TSB as an informational rather than "must repair" notification to dealers. They will not offer to fix it if the owner does not identify it as a problem in their own minds since it does not affect the performance of the car as far as Toyota has been able to determine.

I suspect when the pump comes in for me, I'll have to wrangle to get a loaner car - but they also need to remove the alarm they inadvertently installed. So I'll use that as my leverage.

[Sean K.]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

There have been about 8000 cars sold so at this point Subaru's calling the condition "extremely rare" is accurate. All of us in this thread just drew the short straws.

That being said, this issue with for everyone who's parts have been replaced, new ECU code introduced, and are still having issues; the root cause is probably much more serious than Toyota/Subaru are letting on

This is a relatively small, new forum. The chances that a large number of the 8K vehicles sold have registered on this forum, let alone posted their issue in this thread are unknown.

We simply can't say with any certainty whether or not the problem is going to hit a large or a small percentage of vehicles.

In my opinion, it would be extremely unwise to go ahead with a purchase of the BRZ or the FRS in hopes that you get a good one when Toyota/Subaru don't apparently know what the fix will be, nor do we have any real assurance that ALL cars are not affected by a design defect.

Maybe it's just the skeptic in me, but that's how I see it.

Sean

[pituala]

Originally Posted by Jar

Is it Lisa?

No, Jose.

[Nate219BRZ]

Add me to the list.... Has anyone had issues with warranty and modifications they have done to the car? My dealership keeps reminding me i could have voided my warranty because of a AXLEBACK exhaust...

[pituala]

So never really had the cricket chirping thing, but I do now. The idle has mostly stablized, but once in a while when I come to a stop the idle drops down and there is pretty decent engine vibration and a clacking sound (either the motor shaking or maybe timing chain slap). I'll have to take it in again I'm sure, and not really happy about that.

Then my rep Jose calls and tells me I have to choose between the couple parts I want OR the extended warranty. I was very upset about this and told him first of all I asked for part which you agreed to, then YOU offered the extended warranty afterwards as well, to which I agreed. I said the extended warranty should be AUTOMATICALLY given to people with this problem just as a way of ensuring the proper working of this car after this incident that doesn't seem to be truly solved yet. The parts are what I wanted in compensation for my inconvenience and to give me satisfaction for purchasing a car which I am completely within Lemon Law rights in Florida. So he says well I would have to pay for the parts and installation and then they would reimburse me. I say, so now you're telling me that your compensation to me is for me to spend more money out of my pocket to make me happy and then you will reimburse me.....He said he Scion does not own the dealerships so they can't make the dealer pay. I told him I don't own the dealership either, so how does that make me responsible to pay for anything? I said you speak with your supervisor and tell them that Scion will pay for the special order of my parts and when they arrive I will drop the car off and when service completes the work Scion will pay/reimburse the Toyota/Scion dealership!!!

The f**king gawl of these people!!!!

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Nate219BRZ

Add me to the list.... Has anyone had issues with warranty and modifications they have done to the car? My dealership keeps reminding me i could have voided my warranty because of a AXLEBACK exhaust...

"Will using 'aftermarket' or recycled parts void my warranty?

No. An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...ts/alt192.shtm

[Eurasianman]

Originally Posted by pituala

So never really had the cricket chirping thing, but I do now. The idle has mostly stablized, but once in a while when I come to a stop the idle drops down and there is pretty decent engine vibration and a clacking sound (either the motor shaking or maybe timing chain slap). I'll have to take it in again I'm sure, and not really happy about that.

Then my rep Jose calls and tells me I have to choose between the couple parts I want OR the extended warranty. I was very upset about this and told him first of all I asked for part which you agreed to, then YOU offered the extended warranty afterwards as well, to which I agreed. I said the extended warranty should be AUTOMATICALLY given to people with this problem just as a way of ensuring the proper working of this car after this incident that doesn't seem to be truly solved yet. The parts are what I wanted in compensation for my inconvenience and to give me satisfaction for purchasing a car which I am completely within Lemon Law rights in Florida. So he says well I would have to pay for the parts and installation and then they would reimburse me. I say, so now you're telling me that your compensation to me is for me to spend more money out of my pocket to make me happy and then you will reimburse me.....He said he Scion does not own the dealerships so they can't make the dealer pay. I told him I don't own the dealership either, so how does that make me responsible to pay for anything? I said you speak with your supervisor and tell them that Scion will pay for the special order of my parts and when they arrive I will drop the car off and when service completes the work Scion will pay/reimburse the Toyota/Scion dealership!!!

The f**king gawl of these people!!!!

As far as compensation goes, they DO NOT need to compensate you for anything since everything is covered under warranty. Yes it's an inconvenience for you and I understand that. I had to deal with the service department on my old vehicle for two years. After arguing with the dealership about how it was ridiculous for them to keep my car for an entire month and the fact that I made a payment on a car I didn't drive, THEN they said they would reimburse me for that month. As for the extended warranty, that was offered to me because I called GM corporate and complained that their service department as well as the vehicle had left me very disappointed since GM could never get the issues with the car fixed. In no way did they have to offer me anything to begin with since everything was covered under warranty and a loaner vehicle was provided for me. My advice for you, if you're still not happy, is either go to BBB and file a case for the lemon law or trade it in. It's not worth hassling with customer service. I should know as I have been doing it with my previous vehicle for almost a year, hence, why I traded it in. It sucks, but life goes on.

Second off, that's why you either record these messages or get them to write it down on paper/e-mail. That way you have hard proof. Otherwise, stuff like this will happen.

[Eurasianman]

Originally Posted by @Art_Mighty

"Will using 'aftermarket' or recycled parts void my warranty?

No. An 'aftermarket' part is a part made by a company other than the vehicle manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer. A 'recycled' part is a part that was made for and installed in a new vehicle by the manufacturer or the original equipment manufacturer, and later removed from the vehicle and made available for resale or reuse. Simply using an aftermarket or recycled part does not void your warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act makes it illegal for companies to void your warranty or deny coverage under the warranty simply because you used an aftermarket or recycled part. Still, if it turns out that the aftermarket or recycled part was itself defective or wasn't installed correctly, and it causes damage to another part that is covered under the warranty, the manufacturer or dealer has the right to deny coverage for that part and charge you for any repairs. The FTC says the manufacturer or dealer must show that the aftermarket or recycled part caused the need for repairs before denying warranty coverage."

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/cons...ts/alt192.shtm

As far as this goes, I thought it was totally left up to the dealer/service department on whether or not this would void warranty. I had a similar issue with GM with my aftermarket wheels. I had to argue with them that they were the exact same size and offset... Hell, even same rubber that came with the car before they continued to do anymore warranty work on my vehicle.

[TemeCal]

Originally Posted by TemeCal

So, the latest flash (on the 811 ECU) did not resolve my issue. The tech flashed the ECU, drove it around, and the CEL popped back up.

1st CEL: replaced cam gear and ECU (811 version confirmed)
2nd CEL: flashed the ECU per Toyota's recommendation
3rd CEL: just occurred while my dealer was testing out the flash

I don't think Subaru or Toyota has a clue what's going on.

I just received another call from my service advisor. A toyota field engineer came by and looked at my car. They wanted to double check that the new flash did indeed take (which it did).

My service advisor was told that they have yet another newer ECU (newer than the 811 I have in). I'm not quite sure I believe this. But, regardless, they're having to order me a new ECU.

[@Art_Mighty]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

As far as this goes, I thought it was totally left up to the dealer/service department on whether or not this would void warranty. I had a similar issue with GM with my aftermarket wheels. I had to argue with them that they were the exact same size and offset... Hell, even same rubber that came with the car before they continued to do anymore warranty work on my vehicle.

The original Lemon Law, otherwise known as the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, 15 U.S.C. § 2301, et. seq., was enacted in 1975 by the United States Congress. The federal Act was created to enhance a consumer’s ability to bring claims for breach of a manufacturer’s warranty. The Act not only regulated the form and content of manufacturers’ warranties, it also made the warranties more enforceable by restricting and regulating the boilerplate disclaimers often found in the fine print of the warranties. The Act further broadened the statutory definition of a warranty to regulate promises to repair, which were often not covered by existing state warranty laws. Importantly, the Act also provided consumers with access to a court of law. Unlike many state laws, the federal Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act allows a prevailing consumer to recover attorneys’ fees and costs. This way, if the consumer recovers relief in a court of law, they don’t have to fork over a chunk of that relief to their attorney.

The part with the dealers being able to use their "discretion" to determine the validity of a warranty claim is insane. Because of the built in mechanisms to recover legal fees built into the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act you should be able to easily intimidate a manufacture/dealer into reversing an unfavourable position. If the lawyer is willing to take the case the manufacture/dealer will loose more $$$ then the claim their trying to deny.

[pituala]

Originally Posted by Eurasianman

As far as compensation goes, they DO NOT need to compensate you for anything since everything is covered under warranty. Yes it's an inconvenience for you and I understand that. I had to deal with the service department on my old vehicle for two years. After arguing with the dealership about how it was ridiculous for them to keep my car for an entire month and the fact that I made a payment on a car I didn't drive, THEN they said they would reimburse me for that month. As for the extended warranty, that was offered to me because I called GM corporate and complained that their service department as well as the vehicle had left me very disappointed since GM could never get the issues with the car fixed. In no way did they have to offer me anything to begin with since everything was covered under warranty and a loaner vehicle was provided for me. My advice for you, if you're still not happy, is either go to BBB and file a case for the lemon law or trade it in. It's not worth hassling with customer service. I should know as I have been doing it with my previous vehicle for almost a year, hence, why I traded it in. It sucks, but life goes on.

Second off, that's why you either record these messages or get them to write it down on paper/e-mail. That way you have hard proof. Otherwise, stuff like this will happen.

I completely agree with everything you say....but;

1 - They originally offered me compensation. I NEVER asked for it. The Scion Rep brought it up to begin with and initially offered to make my payment and give me extended warranty. I said instead of that how about this, a set of foglights and a rear spoiler. He replied sure that should be no problem, how about extended warranty. So I said sure, add that too.

2 - I have spoken to the Toyota dealer and the Scion Rep almost exclusively on my work phone here at Riva Motorsports, and we record ALL phone conversations.

[pituala]

Just made an appoinment for tomorrow with the dealer again to address the idle dipping, the chirping, and giving my car back to me with an empty tank.

[jesperswe]

Originally Posted by TemeCal

I just received another call from my service advisor. A toyota field engineer came by and looked at my car. They wanted to double check that the new flash did indeed take (which it did).

My service advisor was told that they have yet another newer ECU (newer than the 811 I have in). I'm not quite sure I believe this. But, regardless, they're having to order me a new ECU.

So there's a even newer ECU out but it does not come with the same software as the flash?! This is just a mess...