Why aren't you vaccinated yet? [CLOSED DUE TO POLITICS]

[IceFyre13th]

[why?]

Originally Posted by wbradley

I promised I would put up this thread, so here it is.

Please share reasons you would NOT be getting vaccinated.
Hopefully the community here can assist in answering questions or help to dispel any hesitancy.


Ultimately, it is still an individual choice so let's try and keep this respectful.

I have my first shot. My buddy and former co-worker who I text back and forth with every day is hesitant and I don't want to stop being friends over it, but my observation is virtually everyone that feels that way has no interest or previous education in biology or life science. So, they are making an uneducated decision when it should be an educated one. My argument has been ask your family Dr what he thinks is best for you.
But I guess not everyone fires on all cylinders upstairs.

You sound as uneducated as possible. A brand new vaccine style that was barely tested and supported by people that have been caught doing horrible things. Ie Gates and the WHO helped fund it and have been caught giving sterilization drugs in vaccines in Africa.

Good article on Gates and his eugenics ties.

If someone is elderly or has comorbidities, then ok they should take the vaccine anyone that has been healthy their entire life has absolutely zero reason to get it.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Why can't I have soup? I do love soup, but it is a bit warm for that around here right now.

List of cold soups
from Wiki

[Captain Snooze]

Incontrovertible proof

[alphasaur]

Originally Posted by why?

You sound as uneducated as possible. A brand new vaccine style that was barely tested and supported by people that have been caught doing horrible things. Ie Gates and the WHO helped fund it and have been caught giving sterilization drugs in vaccines in Africa.

Good article on Gates and his eugenics ties.

If someone is elderly or has comorbidities, then ok they should take the vaccine anyone that has been healthy their entire life has absolutely zero reason to get it.

lol the bill gaters are on this forum too

[soundman98]

i'm just going to say, if 'proof' of anything against someone involves past actions under other circumstances, i'm really glad half the mistakes that i've made in my past haven't made it on the internet.

but you might as well still hang me in the city square, as i have little doubt my cheap-ass ancestors didn't own slaves if given half a chance at cheap/free farm labor, so therefore, i could never do any good in this universe anyways.

you know, because i chose to be born into this specific time period, with this specific family like all of us had that choice...

[wbradley]

"I am as uneducated as possible." - Nell lol

It's true if you are young and have no known medical conditions that create vulnerability, you as an individual probably don't really NEED the vaccine right now.

However, depending on your view on the world it might be a combination of your government urging you to be vaccinated and being a good citizen, and your concern for society around you. It helps if you understand how medical science assesses risk and if need be look into the sheer scale of clinical trials performed over the time period allotted. If the medical world felt there was a need for a longer term study before widescale use and that the risk otherwise outweighed the benefits, I'd tend to believe the medical establishment would have done so.

My daughter who is 22 and recently graduated university is looking forward to vaccine eligibility by May 24. She will get the Pfizer or Moderna shot for added peace of mind. Just finishing school and looking for work, the last thing she wants is a lengthy post pandemic struggle for employment. And she truly does care about society, more so than she fears these vaccines could cause her any harm, that is if she has any hesitancy whatsoever.

Everyone I know and respect for being smart, successful, sensible, good family people etc have not given the vaccines any doubt.

I see there are many outliers and admittedly I struggle to empathize with them. I truly believe we are fulfilling our societal obligation just as we should fulfill family, financial, employment and legal obligations.

[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by alphasaur

I am vaccinated

Here's an argument though, mrna vaccines are relatively novel and in an age group where mortality related to covid is minimal (<30 years old) why should they be pressured to obtain a vaccine when there is no long term data on effects of the novel vaccine on young people. I can understand the hesitancy when it comes to this group of people.

If you are older/have comorbidities, it's much harder to make an argument.

The main pressure would come from the understanding that they may not get severely sick, but that they could be another host. The more hosts we have, the more potential we have for new variants, which could evolve to be deadly or evolve beyond the immunity provided by the vaccine. The seasonal flu kills mostly 80+ year olds, but the Spanish Flu killed mostly 18-30 year olds and then 30-45 year olds and then 65+, and 45-65 year olds did the best. We don’t know how this thing could evolve. Most who understand this would prefer to not roll the dice.

Besides the above, empathic people tend to understand, and want to avoid, spreading anything that could directly lead to someone’s death. Most geriatrics have gotten the vaccine, so this has become less of a concern. Most of the elderly who haven’t gotten the vaccine are anti-vaxxers, so they put themselves at risk (and others), but they do so knowingly, so that removes some of the personal responsibility to not be a spreader that could cause their deaths. Athough, there are still many people can’t get the vaccine or are unable to develop antibodies from the vaccine. Many people rely on herd immunity to live. These people can’t always live in isolation and quarantine. Fortunately, the risks have lessened a lot, as we are mostly open, and we are “only” averaging around 750 deaths a day, but hopefully that doesn’t plateau because that would still be 250k+ deaths a year. We are at 600k deaths since we started tracking this thing, but still millions of people are still at risk.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...perts-say.html

The other argument I hear is, ‘why get vaccinated if I could still get it and be a host or still get it and get sick?’ The vaccine will reduce the viral loads so low that most people won’t be able to get sick or transmit it to others or be hosting enough of the virus to see as many mutations, or again, be able to transmit those mutations. If immunity wasn’t robust enough, it still would likely be enough to turn someone into an asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic transmitter (which is why masks were still recommended), reducing the severity or risk of death. People have confused the idea that there exists the possibility that they could still be an asymptomatic host with the reality that the majority of vaccinated people are not going to be hosts. There is a real concern that a variant could emerge that circumvents the vaccine, turning millions of vaccinated people into asymptomatic hosts and kickstarting this whole thing over again.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...ed-people.html

The most likely source of a novel mutation is from unvaccinated people in surging areas like from India. The second most likely source is in unvaccinated people in areas that aren’t surging like the US. The third most likely source is with zoonotic transmission like how this whole thing started, so I would expect vaccines for livestock next along with surveys for COVID mutations in wild animals like we do for the seasonal flu. Livestock already get a number of vaccines including a coronavirus vaccine, so a COVID one wouldn’t be surprising down the line.

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/12/20-3799_article
https://www.merck-animal-health-usa....is-coronavirus

[Jordanwolf]

Does anyone have a hot daughter in her 20s that needs a reliable boyfriend with a Civic type r? I know the perfect candidate.

[MuseChaser]

You said...

Originally Posted by wbradley

.. it is still an individual choice so let's try and keep this respectful.

You also said, in reference to a friend who expressed hesitancy over the vaccine...

Originally Posted by wbradley

my observation is virtually everyone that feels that way has no interest or previous education in biology or life science. So, they are making an uneducated decision

and....

Originally Posted by wbradley

But I guess not everyone fires on all cylinders upstairs.

You also wrote in a later post, "Everyone I know and respect for being smart, successful, sensible, good family people etc have not given the vaccines any doubt."...implying that those who do express any doubt about the vaccine are, therefore, NOT smart, successful, sensible, nor good family people.


Can you please explain to me how viewing virtually everyone who disagrees with you as uneducated or not "fir[ing] on all cylinders upstairs" is even remotely respectful?

Against my better judgement, I got the vaccine because, as a professional jazz and classical musician, my work has been severely impacted by our reaction to the virus. Recently a few area arts centers have received grants to host live performances again for limited, socially-distanced, masked audiences, but it required the performers to be vaccinated or show proof of a negative test w/in 72 hours of the performances. I went through the process of obtaining the test the first time, but it was such a hassle trying to make sure the results were obtained within the required window that I just gave up and got the vaccine. For what it's worth, I got the Moderna shots. The first one was a nothing burger. The second one knocked me on butt on days two and three afterwards; I haven't felt that awful in years. I haven't even had a cold in several years, and the sickest I've ever been in the past was the one time I DID get a flu shot, contracted the flu (yes, it IS possible.. I had lengthy discussions with my primary care doctor over it, and he confirmed that, for some flu shots, it can happen in as many as 10% of the cases), and spent five miserable days in bed.

If I had not been required to get this vaccine in order to practice my craft currently, I would not have. Here are my reasons, since you asked.

1. My approach to good health has always been to do whatever I can to maintain my health without taking any drugs. If I get some cholesterol/triglyceride/whatever readings in a blood test that show an undesired trend, I workout a bit more, eat a bit less, alter my diet, whatever. If something can be solved without drugs, that's the best way to do it.

2. I DO care very much about other people. Enough to respect their wishes, desires, and freedoms. If I am around someone who wishes me to wear a mask in their presence, I do. If someone did not wish me in their presence due to my being unvaccinated, that was fine and would have continued to be so. Likewise, I take precautions, too, and stay away from areas where the risk of infection is high; crowds anywhere, confined indoor spaces with people other than my immediate daily family, etc.

3. Given #2, the chances of me getting infected are very small, and the chances of me infecting someone else are much smaller still.

4. As a person in extremely good health, just barely over 60 years of age with no comorbidities, the risk to me personally of passing away from Covid is less than many of the things I do frequently... ride a motorcycle, drive my car, fly my Piper, sail my boat. Most people who get Covid don't even get as sick as I did from getting the dang second Moderna shot.

5. The risk of injecting a vaccine, regardless of how minimal that risk may be, is still a risk. The risk is not worth the reward, given points 2, 3, and 4 above.

Without the vaccine, I can still easily minimize risks to myself and others caused by Covid, and I do so. Well... sigh... DID so. I'm vaccinated now, against my better judgement, but musicians gotta music. Your argument that those who are hesitant to accept the vaccine are undeniably uninformed, uneducated, selfish, or the much, MUCH worse names you've called them in the other thread is absolutely baseless. Your attitude that yours is the only acceptable viewpoint is an absolute poster child for disrespect of others.

This is NOT an uneducated viewpoint. I've read, read, read, and read some more, discussed this with my doctor, friends who are doctors, ad nauseum. Doctors don't all agree on who should and shouldn't get the various vaccines. Are the ones that don't agree with you uneducated? Do they know less about medicine than you do?

Unbelievable.

[wbradley]

MuseChaser,

Vaccinated as I am, I still pretty much rely on the pandemic situation with associated lockdowns to clear up before I can look forward to normal work again. I am happy to hear that by getting vaccinated, you have improved your work situation more immediately. And in adding that you sail, have a Piper and so on it doesn't sound too worrisome 14 months in for you.

Aside from having experienced some side affects from your vaccination, you have not related any deeper personal suffering or loss, and if this is so, you are very fortunate. I wouldn't ever wish for you to experience far worse symptoms than the vaccine side effects that you did, but they were not life threatening or debilitating in any way, were they?

Regards to recommending any particular vaccine, it is clear that the mRNA type are the safest overall thus far, as they have not been associated with blood clotting. I have not heard of any widespread preference by physicians otherwise.

I am speaking from my heart and feel somewhat emotional about this whole situation so forgive me for not being able to comprehend the reasoning for any objection related to some side effects that are benign as compared to a nasty Covid19 infection.

Keep in mind that neither you or I can determine who is infected or whether they are transmitting the virus to others. All we know is that once vaccinated, and most likely with future revised boosters, we are pretty confident the population will not continue to perpetuate transmission of infections indefinitely. Also, we know that variants arising can allow re-infection.

So, without trying to over explain myself, I believe a significant number of vaccine hold outs are expecting to ride on the willingness of everyone else who will be vaccinated, and that's not how this world works. So I suppose I should be MORE respectful than otherwise? What have I to thank THEM for regards to taking action to end this? In many cases its laziness or complacency.

Who is worse, someone in my position or one who feels completely apathetic to the situation?

I think I've given this topic/thread far more time than than I should, but then again it is a subject about which I care deeply.

How long would you want to wait before things are normal again?

[KR-S]

Jesus, this thread is as bad as the Laugh Out Loud thread.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by why?

You sound as uneducated as possible. A brand new vaccine style that was barely tested and supported by people that have been caught doing horrible things. Ie Gates and the WHO helped fund it and have been caught giving sterilization drugs in vaccines in Africa.

Good article on Gates and his eugenics ties.

If someone is elderly or has comorbidities, then ok they should take the vaccine anyone that has been healthy their entire life has absolutely zero reason to get it.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by why?

You sound as uneducated as possible. A brand new vaccine style that was barely tested and supported by people that have been caught doing horrible things. Ie Gates and the WHO helped fund it and have been caught giving sterilization drugs in vaccines in Africa.

Good article on Gates and his eugenics ties.

If someone is elderly or has comorbidities, then ok they should take the vaccine anyone that has been healthy their entire life has absolutely zero reason to get it.

OMFG! Rapture Ready is your source? No wonder I blocked your ass years ago. I only saw your post because somebody else quoted you. Hilarious.