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View Poll Results: Which jab have you had? | |||
Pfizer | 53 | 51.96% | |
Moderna | 27 | 26.47% | |
Johnson & Johnson | 6 | 5.88% | |
AstraZeneca | 4 | 3.92% | |
Novavax | 0 | 0% | |
Sputnik | 1 | 0.98% | |
Convidecia | 0 | 0% | |
Homebrew with a big dose of something special | 11 | 10.78% | |
Voters: 102. You may not vote on this poll |
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12-12-2020, 05:33 PM | #211 | |
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My understanding was that most vaccine designs were done within a few weeks of release of the virus genetic sequence back in February. Everything since then has been testing, certifications, etc. I'm sure there were more that dropped out of contention due to one reason or another. Cancer isn't a virus, it's a mutation to your own cells that your immune system doesn't recognize as dangerous because they resemble healthy cells. A vaccine teaches your immune system to be better prepared to fight stuff that comes from outside your body. Think of a vaccine as a practice test so that it is better prepared for the real thing. The coronavirus can still enter your body, but you immune system is basically waiting for it with the exact right weapon to kill it before it can replicate. |
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12-12-2020, 05:46 PM | #212 | |
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So, if you've already had Covid 19 you likely don't need one. Why the annual flu shot then? All the various strains/mutations? |
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12-12-2020, 08:19 PM | #213 | |
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I think the body's natural immune response is to something other than the spike. @Irace86.2.0, amirite?
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12-12-2020, 09:35 PM | #214 | |
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I'm not sure if you answered my question or not lol Well put though. If you've had Covid 19 your body should recognize the enemy the second time around and respond much quicker, no? This is my thinking. |
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12-12-2020, 09:42 PM | #215 | |
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Regardless, that is problematic for many reasons. Besides the obvious, that anyone getting a false positive will be freaked out, it would lead to a contact tracing nightmare for HIV. IV drug users, prostitutes and other high risk groups would just flat out assume they didn't have HIV if they got the vaccine and a test came back negative, so actual HIV would likely spread among them. On the corollary, many monogamous couples may assume their partner cheated or may try to pursue treatments liking taking retroviral medications or other drugs like immunostimulants that are typically taken by HIV patients. It is a good thing they abandoned this trial, even if the HIV clamp proteins made the vaccine more effective. We all should be thankful for the individuals who are participating in these trials, regardless of their reasons, and regardless of the fact that this issue didn't lead to lasting problems or any illness. Responding to your attached image: --HIV: There is more money in the treatments than the cure of HIV, but we have essentially cured HIV with our treatments. Obviously a preventative vaccine would be great--if not for everyone then at least frontline workers like healthcare workers and police officers and laboratory technicians, as well as, high risk groups like promiscuous people and IV drug users. Also, HIV is not COVID. While a million people die each year of HIV complications, the concentration of those that die is not so widely distributed. Most of the deaths are in Sub-Saharan Africa, where 30% of deaths can come from HIV complications, but in the US, the deaths are 0.26% of all cause mortality or 1.85 in 100,000, and it is primarily concentrated in IV drug users who are poor or on the streets. Compare that to COVID where we have a death rate under 1 in a 1000 in many places, and it is affecting all classes (not equally, but close enough), and it is affecting the economy. Most people in the US who aren't on the streets, addicts and poor will seek medical care and be able to cure themselves. In this sense, COVID =/= HIV. https://www.niaid.nih.gov/news-event...cas-and-europe https://ourworldindata.org/hiv-aids @Spuds ...make sure to read what follows... --Cancer: We actually do have vaccines for some cancers. Do we have some universal silver bullet that works on all cancers? No. Maybe this will happen some day, but it is unlikely because of the nature of cancer. For some types of cancers like cervical cancer (and related cancers), that are almost primarily linked to two types of HPVs, the HPV vaccine is most definitely an existing cancer vaccine, so that statement was false. We also have vaccine-like-compounds that are treatments and not prophylactics, that wake up the immune system to the presence of a tumor/cancer. Again, this is a difference of severity when we try to compare it to COVID. --Common Cold: The common cold is an upper respiratory infection with the associated mild symptoms. There are over 200 different viruses that are responsible for the common cold. These viruses also mutate rapidly. Unless someone is immunocompromised, the likelihood that the common cold would lead to serious illness or death is fairly rare. Because of all the reasons above, the ability to make a vaccine is hard and the demand for a Common Cold vaccine is not high. Most people don't take the yearly flu vaccine, which actually can kill and debilitate. Again, the common cold is far from being comparable to COVID. I think you need to look up the definition of a Pyramid Scheme because you seem to be confusing its common usage with some other hierarchy metaphor.
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12-12-2020, 09:45 PM | #216 | |
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I'm not sure myself how the coronavirus vaccine works, but I recall hearing about multiple strains, so I would think the vaccine would still be a good idea for those that have had covid. |
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12-12-2020, 09:54 PM | #217 | |
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I read a while back about possible multiple strains. I'll have to dig further. |
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12-12-2020, 09:54 PM | #218 | |
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Agreed on the common cold, I just didn't feel the need to go into that much detail. |
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12-12-2020, 09:56 PM | #219 | |
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I believe the professional consensus is that naturally acquired covid immunity doesn't last and is vulnerable to mutated strains. The spike doesn't change.
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12-12-2020, 10:05 PM | #220 | |
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Yes, we need an annual flu shot because Flu A mutates quickly and tends to be more deadly like the H1N1 variants known for several pandemics. Flu B mutates slowly, and most people have some type of childhood immunity, so they will only get Flu B a few times in their life at most. Scientists go around the world and look at mutating flu variants in birds (avian), pigs (swine) and other local animals that could cross over to humans.
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12-12-2020, 10:24 PM | #221 | ||
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https://www.mdanderson.org/publicati...7-1592202.html
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12-12-2020, 10:36 PM | #222 | ||
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I think it is likely that the body will make antibodies to the spike protein and other proteins when someone gets COVID, but specifically having antibodies to the spike protein could be better at halting the virus upon reinfection. It could be the case that the body developed many different antibodies when someone got infected, and the body lost some of those antibodies because they weren't prolific enough to hold onto, so a vaccine focused on one protein and thus one antibody could lead to better, specific immunity. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/h...-immunity.html Quote:
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12-13-2020, 02:06 AM | #223 |
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Two things I thought of tonight:
1) If the vaccine doesn't lead to lasting immunity then at what point will they say we need a booster? I'm assuming they will be following the participants of the clinical trials. The vaccine was capable of preventing 90-95% of cases in the study period, but what if that number drops down. At what point do we need a booster? Is it 75%? Is it 50%? The J&J vaccine is apparently only 70% effective, yet I'm sure it'll be an option, so I'm sure there is some threshold where one vaccine will be used over others when supplies are bountiful, or they will say we need a booster of some type. I'm curious because most things don't last forever. Like birth control might be 99% effective for a given event or year or whatever, but in a ten year span the actual odds of not getting pregnant while on the pill is not 99%; it might be 60%. Similarly, if this thing starts to wane then what will be the cut off criteria. I'm not entirely sure. We have booster shots for other vaccines that we received as a child that may be twenty years down the road. We have the yearly flu shot because the flu evolves. I'm curious how this will go. 2) I said it above, but we need to be thankful for those who participated in the trials. Many people did it for personal reasons, but I'm sure many did it because they wanted to serve their country. It reminds me the Minnesota Starvation Experiment done during WWII. If you are not familiar then they are worth checking out. https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/135/6/1347/4663828 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnes...ion_Experiment
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12-13-2020, 03:39 AM | #224 | |
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So the team we sent out, having had taken the proper precautions ended up attending the workshop remotely whilst sitting in the next door hotel in UAE!!! The rest of our team was in the UK, safe and happy!! |
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