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View Poll Results: Which one would you rather? | |||
Nissan Z | 89 | 69.53% | |
Toyota Supra | 39 | 30.47% | |
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll |
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09-06-2020, 06:48 PM | #351 | |||||||||
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If there was really this gaping hole in the market for a US$30k, 300HP, 2,800lb sportscar that could be easily filled and was profitable, you can bet it would be filled by now. Heck, Toyota came close with their 86, but they could only achieve the price point with an anaemic 200HP boxer 4 from Subaru. They can’t even offer you a 300HP Toyota sportscar (Supra 2.0) for less than US$40k! Quote:
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09-06-2020, 07:11 PM | #352 |
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09-06-2020, 07:24 PM | #353 | ||||||||||||
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[re wider wheels and sticky tires] Quote:
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I've said it before, but just plopping a Toyota/Lexus V6 in the front of a shortened/lightened FT86 would have been fricking ideal for me. Quote:
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09-06-2020, 07:38 PM | #355 | |
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2 + 3. The lack of them doesn't mean it can't be done. Are you saying Mazda couldn't add 100 more horsepower to the Miata, stiffen the chassis, brakes, etc without adding over 800lbs? What if the 86 lost the rear seats, lost some length off the wheelbase and off the car length/width, added a NA k20 then the car would weigh much less, right, but probably not what a Miata could weigh because the chassis was designed for something bigger, right? Or, ask yourself, how is it that the Miata has similar hp/tq to the 86, yet they have a weight difference of 500lbs, all while having a similar price? Is the Miata under built for the power or the 86 is overbuilt for the power, or is it that they have different dimensions? 4. The ease of something has more to do with the logistics of mass producing a car more than the engineering constraints of designing a car around 300 or 400 horsepower with weight under 3000lbs. This is why Ford can offer a 300+hp car for $26k; it is because the chassis is purpose built for the Mustang, and the engine is used on like eight platforms. This is the problem because no one is making a RWD platform for sub 3000lb cars. Sub 3000lb cars get FWD econobox drivetrains. RWD is saved for luxury cars, which is why Nissan had to borrow the chassis from heavier cars. If Nissan had a RWD econobox chassis to make a sports car off of then they could do it. They don't, so they won't. 5. We don't know anything about the 400Z, and if it has 400hp with less weight than a 911 while being cheaper then who cares if that is unfair or unrealistic? The Mustang GT has more power than a base Carrera or S and costs $60-70k less with only a few hundred pounds difference in weight. What's the point about fairness? 6. The 86 is a GT car. It is the GT86 in fact, but I agree, most people don't actually want a sports car. They want a heavier GT car or sports sedan. They want something that looks sportier than it drives, but this is the FT86 forum, right? People here are looking for light weight sports cars, so their preferences are going to be for the next 300Z or 400Z, or whatever they call it, to be lighter. Will it happen given Nissan's logistical constraints? Most likely not.
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09-06-2020, 08:09 PM | #356 | |||||
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Packages and higher trims are always overpriced by design. Look at the difference between the NISMO Z and the base Z and ask yourself if there is $15k in upgraded value. You are adding a $5k price to the 86 then saying the Z is priced the same. The FA20D engine is a one off engine. The 300hp VR30 is shared across multiple platforms, so it is the new standard just like the VQ37 was the standard. In fact, 300hp is less power, so weight and price should be less than the outgoing 370Z, plus it should benefit from a modern design. A turbo wouldn't fit into the current chassis. They want to keep it NA. Quote:
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09-06-2020, 08:26 PM | #357 |
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Bentley has plenty of HP. Still corners like dogshit.
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09-06-2020, 08:50 PM | #358 | |
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The Datsun 280Z was the car I liked best and felt the most comfortable in driving quickly on country roads until I completed my 2ZZ swapped 2000 Mr2 Spyder. I have owned 53 cars including some pony cars and another sports car but the only other car that has impressed me as much as the Z and my Spyder is my son's FR-S. I know that I am not the "typical" American driver but I would love to see Nissan go back to producing cars like ones Datsun did. Of course, I know you cannot do that because now you have to include a couple hundred pounds of electronic gadgets and gizmos to satisfy the "typical" driver(?). God forbid he or she be disconnected from the internet and social networking long enough to actually connect to the car and enjoy the drive.
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09-06-2020, 09:15 PM | #359 |
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I think the argument about weight and safety standards are overplayed without much legitimacy. Doesn't the existence of the 2300lb Miata or 2100lb Mirage make that argument obsolete?
The original Miata was 2100lbs with a 1.6l engine making 115hp/100tq. The current ND Miata weights 2300lbs with a 2.0l engine making 181hp/151tq. Interestingly, a 1.5l engine in a base model is available in some markets, and the car weighs 2100lbs. What we want is just talk, which is possible from a cost and engineering perspective, but isn't logistically possible for Nissan. I return to what @Ohio Enthusiast said, which is that Nissan lacks the platform for a lighter weight car because it doesn't have a light weight, RWD, global architecture to build a new Z car on, so it will need to settle for the previous chassis. Unless they can find ways of pulling out weight, the car is likely to stay just as heavy.
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09-06-2020, 10:10 PM | #360 | ||||
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09-06-2020, 10:27 PM | #361 | ||
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09-06-2020, 11:18 PM | #362 |
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Yeah, LOL, they are not the prettiest things around. The hard top helps a lot. Once you have driven one with a 2ZZ or 2GR, they start looking a whole lot less ugly to you.
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09-07-2020, 08:56 AM | #363 | |
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I found it ironic that one of the biggest complaints about the current 370Z (often from people who've never driven one) is that the 'infotainment system is dated'. Really? Is that what matters most in a sports car? The user interface for playing iTunes songs??? Another common complaint is that the 370Z is 'dated'. So what? In what way? As long as the chassis still offers competitive handling and weight, what's wrong with it being some years old? If a top priority is a state-of-the-art infotainment user-interface, then I humbly suggest that maybe a sports car isn't what the person is looking for. Which, judging from plummeting sports car sales in the US, appears to be the case. There don't seem to be many people left who care more about how a car simply feels to drive than the features of the infotainment system. So many people whine about the lack of simple, analog sports cars, with pure, linear, naturally-aspirated engines, engaging manual transmissions, with good performance at a reasonable price. Nissan continued to sell the 370Z which provided all of those, and almost no one bought it. |
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09-07-2020, 09:44 AM | #364 | |
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