Stock motor started knocking... (shortblock + more replaced, 1/18) resolved

[MarkR171]

Edit: Two weeks after the new short block, the engine started knocking again and this time the traction control and abs lights came on with the check engine light. Toyota offered to buy the car back when I asked to start the lemon law process.

Update 1/18/2017

Happy to say the car is back home and seems to be sorted. Read the description in the picture of my invoice to see what was wrong. The issue should be sorted for good this time, unless excess sealant made its way somewhere in the rebuild too.



update 1/4/17
Toyota authorized new short block, driver side cam shaft and cam gears. Will get an eta tomorrow. The excess sealant they found was with the driver side exhaust cam gear which was flopping around. Sometimes it would restrict oil flow to the cam gear and throw off timing, sometimes it would let oil through.

My service manager invited me to come to the dealer and speak to the guys working on the car and look over all the parts while they wait for the new parts.

Will get an eta for parts tomorrow.

Update: 1/3/2017

So my service manager told me last week that Toyota suggests they disassemble the motor so that we can find the source of the problems. They believe metal shavings were getting stuck in the oil control valve. If you haven't read the rest of this post, the previous two occurrences were solved by either swapping out parts (cam gear and ocv) or resetting the oil control valve. This is the current state of my engine:



He also mentioned that they found metal shavings in the oil but were not aware of the source of the shavings in his text to me this morning.


I asked for an update in the afternoon and got this response that I'm not sure how to take currently...

"We found a very small oil port with a restriction that appeared to be the sealant that is used between the block. Toyota is sending someone tomorrow to inspect the engine now that it is disassembled."



Update 12/24/16

Aaaaaaand its back.

Because today is Christmas eve, part of me wants to try unplugging the control valve, resetting it, then forget about it.

The other part of me wants to just park it until the dealership is open and bring it back knocking.

(All previous updates compiled in this first post.)

Update Tuesday 9/27/16.

Got the car back today.

The service manager had me speak directly with the tech to go over everything they did with the car. The first thing they did was unplug the controller for the driver side exhaust cam gear. Immediately, the knocking/tapping noise stopped. Toyota had them drain the oil, cut open the filter to look for debris, and even ran some oil through paper to look for debris. They found nothing. They refilled the oil, plugged the controller back in, and no more knocking/tapping. Engine runs perfectly normal.

Toyota believes there might have been a tiny bit of debris in the oil control valve that controls the oil pressure inside the cam gear to control the timing. By unplugging the controller, and plugging it back in, they think they forced the debris through the valve. They didn't want to open the timing cover because there is no longer any symptom to diagnose. Opening it and looking around would get them nowhere.

I asked the tech if there was any oil left that could be used for an analysis, but he said the oil has been out in open air so it wouldn't be a good idea. But he did mention it would be a good idea to do an oil change after 3-5,000 miles and send the oil out for analysis just in case there are particles that the naked eye can't see.

For now, the dealership put 107 miles on it since the noise went away and I put about 50 on it today. Car is back to normal.

I'm somewhat relieved that it seems to not be a mechanical failure. Everything that has been done to my car has been logged to my VIN with Toyota so it's all documented in case the issue comes up again.




Update: 9/26/2016

I called the service manager today (working directly with the manager now rather than the advisors.) He mentioned a guy from Toyota NA and a tech from the dealer chain's Subaru dealer came by to listen to the car. They thought there may be some debris in the oil system causing the VVT system to rattle, so the Subaru tech recommended disconnecting the cam gear and running the engine without it. The service manager told me that the noise goes away completely with the cam gear removed. I don't know what that means exactly, as I don't think the engine can run without it, but maybe the oil control valve was disconnected or something allowing the chain to spin with no timing changes. Not sure.

Toyota NA is sending another engineer to the dealership to work on the car. They are going to inspect the oil system for debris and the vvt components for any damage to see what is causing it to rattle a second time. The service manager says I should hear again "very soon" about what they're going to do. I'm hoping to hear back in the next couple days at the latest.

Update from end of Monday 9/26/2016

Service manager says they have NOT opened up the vvt system at all yet. They only disconnected the vvt oil control solenoid to check if it's the vvt system acting up again. All they did so far was drain the oil, cut open the filter and strain the oil. No shavings or any debris visible. Toyota wants him to take the car overnight to test before continuing tomorrow.

I'm guessing he'll call tomorrow saying there is still a noise. Essentially all they did was an oil change... on 2500 mile old oil... and found nothing.


Update 9/21/2016 - Knocking came back while driving normally to lunch today.

Called up the service manager at the dealer that handled the car the first time. Brought the car in and he and one mechanic listened to the car and confirmed it sounds the same as 6 months ago. They're going to get Toyota involved again. Last time, Toyota recommended they take a new car and start swapping parts over to mine until everything was resolved. Hopefully this time they just give me a new engine.





Update 3/10/2016 - Resolved!(?) Edit: 9/21/16 - NOPE!

Yesterday, I got a call from the service director at the dealership saying they've spoken with Toyota reps about what to do with the car. He said they replaced more parts and got the car running normally with no noises at all. He took a final 30 minute long test drive this morning and called me to come pick up the car.

I drove the car about 2 hours today and happy to say, there is no noise whatsoever. Even the crickets are gone because they also changed the fuel pump. (I believe the noise they were hearing after changing the cam gear was the crickets.)

Here's a list of everything replaced on the car. If it says QTY 0, it's because they were instructed to pull parts off a new 2015 FRS by Toyota reps rather than making me wait for part orders. At least that's my understanding from what the service director told me. So a fuel pump and "injector sub assembly" from the donor car.


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Update 3/8/2016.

On 3/4/2016, the parts arrived at the dealer.

On the morning 3/7/2016, the service advisor called me and told me the techs were working on putting the car back together and that I should be able to pick the car up in the afternoon. I received no call later in the day, and when I called them, the service advisor had gone home. I asked to check the status and the woman on the phone informed me that the status of my car still said that they were diagnosing the noise.

This morning, 3/8/2016, my service advisor left a voicemail saying they got the car back together, test drove it, and there is still a knock. He said they would speak to Toyota HQ for what they want to do next. At 5:00pm, I called my service advisor and he said they had still not heard from Toyota and they aren't doing anything until they do.

Does anyone have any experience/tips with dealing with the lemon law? The car has been at the dealership for exactly 37 days.

---------------------------
Original Post:


I've been searching and googling but have not really found anything exactly like my issue.

Stock '15 FRS with 8350 miles.

I was driving my commute as normal today and as soon as I got off the freeway and slowed down at a stoplight, I noticed a loud knocking sound - loud enough to hear with windows up and music on. I thought "that can't be me," so I revved the engine a bit and the knock was consistent with RPM. The engine then began to have trouble staying over 500 rpm without me giving it some revs to stay alive. As soon as the light turned green I drove to a side street and parked it - and that's where I am now.

The car drove fine despite the noise. Loud knock at idle and increased in speed with engine speed.

I shut the car off and called scion roadside assistance. While waiting, I let the car cool and noticed it was overfilled about 3/4" past the full mark on the dipstick. (Free dealer service 1000 miles ago.)

45 minutes after shutting the car off, I started it again and the sound is normal as far as I can tell, just the usual direct injection tapping and crickets.

The car has never been overrevved, never been to a track, never missed a shift.

Should I be worried? Still waiting for a tow truck 2 hours later...

Edit: Video added
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ONtGtyOew"]Scion FRS Engine noise (only when hot) - YouTube[/ame]





Edit 2: Update from the dealer, parts ordered, ETA March 11 (wtf?)

SU003-05180 (Driver side exhaust cam gear)
#13080 in this diagram


and

SU003-06052 (Camshaft timing oil control valve)
#15330 in this diagram

[MisterSheep]

Sorry to hear about this issue. Unfortunately at the time I do not have any assistance except for let Toyota take care of it as you should still be under warranty.
Curious as to how this is taken care of and what the techs at toyota say.

[MarkR171]

I've been waiting for 2hr 20min. Toyota roadside just called me and said one hour more.

Seriously? I could have pushed it home in this amount of time.

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[rosol16]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

I've been waiting for 2hr 20min. Toyota roadside just called me and said one hour more.

Seriously? I could have pushed it home in this amount of time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

It maybe a spun bearing can't guarantee but maybe. Check your oil and let me know how it is

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by rosol16

It maybe a spun bearing can't guarantee but maybe. Check your oil and let me know how it is

It's overfilled. Under 1k miles since its first free dealer oil change.

Will have it drained and looked at if/when the tow truck ever shows up.

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[go_a_way1]

Dude my car makes all kinds of knocking sounds and clattering. If the sound went away once you restarted it I would suspect its just normal FA20 sounds?

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by go_a_way1

Dude my car makes all kinds of knocking sounds and clattering. If the sound went away once you restarted it I would suspect its just normal FA20 sounds?

It was significantly louder than any sound the car has made before, and the sputtering at idle was constant and more severe than usual, not like the once in awhile slight rpm dip

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[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

It was significantly louder than any sound the car has made before, and the sputtering at idle was constant and more severe than usual, not like the once in awhile slight rpm dip

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hmm, I hope shes alright in that case

[MisterSheep]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

I've been waiting for 2hr 20min. Toyota roadside just called me and said one hour more.

Seriously? I could have pushed it home in this amount of time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G890A using Tapatalk

I feel it.. I had once waited 4 hours in 100 degree weather for a tow truck when a friend of mine Eclipse GSX threw a rod. Then when the tow truck arrived they said "is your car modified? I can't tow you." and they left. Then we called another tow truck company and they brought a flatbed and towed us no problem. Total of 6 hours in the heat.

[rosol16]

Originally Posted by MarkR171

It's overfilled. Under 1k miles since its first free dealer oil change.

Will have it drained and looked at if/when the tow truck ever shows up.

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Is it like a tick or a thud?

[Tcoat]

No CELs?

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No CELs?

None

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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by rosol16

It maybe a spun bearing can't guarantee but maybe. Check your oil and let me know how it is

Spun bearings tend to stay spun so if the noise went away when restarted it probably isn't that.

[MarkR171]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Spun bearings tend to stay spun so if the noise went away when restarted it probably isn't that.

It was still there after the first restart, but back to normal after cooling for 45min

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