Need new bumper, but dealer said paint is hard to match

[Subie]

Don't have anything more than the bumper painted. You don't want to deal with the hassle of a less-than-stellar body shop experience causing more damage than it solves. My car spent a total of ~2 weeks in the body shop for a stupid little dent in the front bumper. Don't let that happen to you; find the best shop you can, and have the smallest portion possible (in this case only the bumper) painted.

[EN2_Squirrel]

This is what happened when i hit one of those white barriers while drifting. Yes i messed up but i was doing 90mph upon impact. Should i replace it? Also it is like a chunk of bumper was taken out.

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[OrbitalEllipses]

Originally Posted by midnitz

Thanks whaap! I also belive the best shops are sometimes those small body shops with one/two ppl. I just wanted a quote from the body shop at the dealer as a baseline, you know what to expect because i'm paying this out of my own pocket. my insurance record is too clean .

Go to where the OCD Porsche guys go. Probably a high end place or a complete back alley place as @whaap said.

[#87]

You should be happy they said that up front and didn't just take your money and do a crap job.

Worst case, go through your insurance recommended shop so you have someone to complain to if it isn't done right.

[David-Fermani.com]

Let me guess...........Fisher Body or AutoMetrics??

I go into these shops on a regular basis and can understand their point of view for this excuse of possible mismatching. Remember, there isn't a production car on the road today that has matching bumpers. FACT. The paint on the body is totally different then the paint on platic and therefore is practically impossible for it to perfectly match. Especially when there are so many shades/variances that are put into place as being acceptable.

Shops (when doing a repaint), can do multiple test or spray out/let down panels to make sure that the paint will match almost perfectly prior to even wasting the time of spraying it. If you need assistance just let me know. I'm local and can give you lots of assistance if needed that will greatly help with this issue.

Here's some helpful info on paint matching:
http://www.autopia.org/forum/body-shop-mechanical-modifications/139240-why-bumpers-dont-match-rest-your-car.html

Originally Posted by midnitz

Recently, I hit a lamppost with my front bumper. The damage is not that bad, n I wouldn't fix it if my car was older. But since it’s still relatively a new car, I’m looking to replace my bumper. My car's a whiteout.

I got a quote n it's about $980 from my dealership’s body shop in Tory, MI, for the bumper only. But my concern is they kept telling me the colour won’t match n insisted I need to do the whole front end; at least the fenders if not the hood. Of course that’s more expensive, I think it was like $1800 to do the bumper n fenders. But the problem I have is I hate to mess with factory paint if I don’t have to.

I was just wonder if any white car owners have their bumper replaced/ re-sprayed (I’m sorry about your incident) n how it turned out. I do know that pearl white is harder to match, but I also believe a skillful body guy should be able to match it pretty good.

FYI, my car's a April production car, n it's been parked outside 95% of the time. So I assume the paints faded a little bit.

Also, although I now work in Michigan, I am from Toronto originally. So if anyone from the GTA area has a good body shop they recommend, that will be great.

Originally Posted by midnitz

Lol, I knew someone would ask that. Well, I was working late that night n when I went to grab my car, I was the only one left in the parking lot. When I got in my car, the windows were all foggy, but I took off anyways because I was really tired. I put it into drive since no one was in front of me (I like said, I was the only one left in the parking lot), but I didn’t notice the lamppost slightly to the front right of me n I didn’t see it because my windows were super foggy. The next thing was I felt the impact. Luckily, I only let go of my brakes half way, so I didn’t do any frame damage. N like I said it’s not that bad, u can hardly see it even from 5- 10 feet away.

But because there is a slight dent in the bumper, they will have to play with body filler to fix it. N I don’t like body fillers. So that’s y I’m looking to replace.

Originally Posted by midnitz

Thanks whaap! I also belive the best shops are sometimes those small body shops with one/two ppl. I just wanted a quote from the body shop at the dealer as a baseline, you know what to expect because i'm paying this out of my own pocket. my insurance record is too clean .

[Cameronghanson]

I had my entire bumper replaced and repainted when a chick ran a red light and autometrics in Utica mi replaced it and it looks unbelievable. I guess they had to do it several times to make it completely match and that they did. It looks awesome. Can't recommend them enough

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by David-Fermani.com

The paint on the body is totally different then the paint on platic and therefore is practically impossible for it to perfectly match.

The paint isn't different. There's a flex agent added any time paint is applied to something like a bumper cover though. A good body shop can easily match a freshly painted bumper to the rest of the car. Unfortunately, there are often variances in factory color codes, so it's not always easy. Plus, the spray gun often needs to be adjusted to lay down metallic paints in a way that mimics the factory paint.

[David-Fermani.com]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

The paint isn't different. There's a flex agent added any time paint is applied to something like a bumper cover though. A good body shop can easily match a freshly painted bumper to the rest of the car. Unfortunately, there are often variances in factory color codes, so it's not always easy. Plus, the spray gun often needs to be adjusted to lay down metallic paints in a way that mimics the factory paint.

Sorry, but at the factory/OEM level, paint applied to bumpers/trim is TOTALLY different then the paint that is on the body. OEM paint (body) is applied via robots and is heat cured. Aftermarket paint or paint that is on bumpers/trim is usually done manually and is cured (or cross-linked) via hardener and doesn’t *require*baking. Paint on the body is much more durable then what is on trim as well due to this high heat baking process.
Most modern paint refinishing systems don’t utilize a flex agent as more and more paint manufacturers are designing their paint more flexible on its own merit. Very rarely do I run into a shop that asks for flex additives on their repairs as I think it is really being phased out.
Yes, a body shop painter can match paint more precisely when doing a bumper replacement compared to the match that comes from the supplier. Regardless, 3 stage pearls are much more challenging then dark solid colors.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by David-Fermani.com

Sorry, but at the factory/OEM level, paint applied to bumpers/trim is TOTALLY different then the paint that is on the body. OEM paint (body) is applied via robots and is heat cured. Aftermarket paint or paint that is on bumpers/trim is usually done manually and is cured (or cross-linked) via hardener and doesn’t *require*baking. Paint on the body is much more durable then what is on trim as well due to this high heat baking process.
Most modern paint refinishing systems don’t utilize a flex agent as more and more paint manufacturers are designing their paint more flexible on its own merit. Very rarely do I run into a shop that asks for flex additives on their repairs as I think it is really being phased out.
Yes, a body shop painter can match paint more precisely when doing a bumper replacement compared to the match that comes from the supplier. Regardless, 3 stage pearls are much more challenging then dark solid colors.

Let me first say that I used to work at a body shop. That said, flex additive is absolutely required for flexible parts like bumpers. Always has been and probably always will be, unless they come up with a paint that can flex on its own without cracking. With today's technology, that's not possible...and that's why flex additive is used. Of course we always baked everything we painted, whether it was an entire car or just a bumper or trim piece. It's part of the curing process and any shop that skips baking is a hack shop.

And yes, I realize how new cars are painted. The bumpers are also painted by robots and heat cured. The only difference is that the bumpers aren't painted with the cars. Other than additives (like flex additive), the paint is exactly the same. Research it yourself if you doubt me. The information is out there.

[David-Fermani.com]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Let me first say that I used to work at a body shop. That said, flex additive is absolutely required for flexible parts like bumpers. Always has been and probably always will be, unless they come up with a paint that can flex on its own without cracking. With today's technology, that's not possible...and that's why flex additive is used. Of course we always baked everything we painted, whether it was an entire car or just a bumper or trim piece. It's part of the curing process and any shop that skips baking is a hack shop.

Yes, things have changed since you've been away. Today's waterborne paint (base) doesn't require baking fyi.

Originally Posted by White Shadow

And yes, I realize how new cars are painted. The bumpers are also painted by robots and heat cured. The only difference is that the bumpers aren't painted with the cars. Other than additives (like flex additive), the paint is exactly the same. Research it yourself if you doubt me. The information is out there.

So please post up this information then as proof....

Especially some that says that bumpers are baked at 400 degrees.

[ttknf]

Originally Posted by whaap

I handled automobile insurance claims for 25 years and have some advice for you. Don't think the body shop is good just because they're at a dealership. Not necessarily true. There are some high-end dealers around who don't have their own body shops. I'm talking about Lexus, Porsche, Merdedes, Rolls, etc. If you can find one of those in your area, stop in and ask them who they use to do their body work. Don't be surprised if it's some shop off of some alley. Go to that shop and talk to them about your problem. Yes, pearl (any metallic) is harder to match that regular paint but a good paint man can do a good job. It all depends on the individual man doing the work and not the shop or where it's located.

+1, I'm also in the insurance business and more often than not, the shops that the dealerships have in house or utilize are garbage. They take weeks to do what amounts to work barely better than Maaco (or even worse). A couple of the bigger, corporate owned dealerships with body shops are really bad; tons of rework issues and skimping on proper replacement/repair of parts/structural components of the unibody.

The best shops I know of are the ones that look like holes in the wall, but when you head out back, you see some serious shit. Their repertoires often include incredibly impressive demo and show cars.

Also for you guy saying that the factory bakes paint on urethane, plastic etc parts are really clueless. How would you bake a plastic part and not have it melt? It's true the unibodies/doors/hoods are cured using heat, but that same logic doesn't apply to plastics.

For curing modern paints, you can force dry with heat, but it's not the same type of heat applied by OEMs to metal panels. Additionally, a lot of body shops force dry using UV light as the catalysts used in modern urethane and acrylic enamels are UV-sensitive and can be forced cured in very short periods of time.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by David-Fermani.com

Yes, things have changed since you've been away. Today's waterborne paint (base) doesn't require baking fyi.

Who said I've been away? I no longer do it for a living, but I still do body work/painting. BTW, do you think solvent-based painting is obsolete? Seriously? LOL, lots of shops are still using solvents. Water is just now starting to become popular due to environmental concerns. Are you really that out of touch with reality?

So please post up this information then as proof....

Especially some that says that bumpers are baked at 400 degrees.

400 degrees? Who said that? Try 140 degrees F for your typical lacquer paint. And yes, lots of cars are still factory painted with lacquer, including my new Audi.

[White Shadow]

Originally Posted by ttknf

Also for you guy saying that the factory bakes paint on urethane, plastic etc parts are really clueless. How would you bake a plastic part and not have it melt? It's true the unibodies/doors/hoods are cured using heat, but that same logic doesn't apply to plastics.

.

Automotive plastics are baked at 140 - 160 degrees F. Nothing melts at those temps. This should be glaringly obvious to anyone in the business. Well, I guess being in the insurance business doesn't help much with the technical aspects of actually spraying a car.

I'm sorta amused that we have an auto detailer and an insurance guy acting as authorities on painting cars. Maybe if we had a few more guys who have actually painted cars professionally, we could have a great little debate! LOL

[David-Fermani.com]

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Who said I've been away?

You did:

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Let me first say that I used to work at a body shop.

Originally Posted by White Shadow

I no longer do it for a living, but I still do body work/painting.

So, if you are still involved in the body repair trade, but not officially working at a shop, where do you perform your work? Just curious??

Originally Posted by White Shadow

BTW, do you think solvent-based painting is obsolete? Seriously? LOL, lots of shops are still using solvents.

No, I don't think solvent-based painting is obsolete at all. Every body shop, not matter if it’s using water-borne or not is still being cleared with a solvent clear. What is obsolete in many ways is lacquer. FACT.

Originally Posted by White Shadow

Water is just now starting to become popular due to environmental concerns. Are you really that out of touch with reality?400 degrees? Who said that? Try 140 degrees F for your typical lacquer paint.

I never said anything about bumpers or trim? I’m referring to factory applied paint on vehicle bodies that is baked at levels between 250-300 degrees. Are you doubting this?

Originally Posted by White Shadow

I'm sorta amused that we have an auto detailer and an insurance guy acting as authorities on painting cars. Maybe if we had a few more guys who have actually painted cars professionally, we could have a great little debate! LOL

What’s amusing is the mentality of certain bodymen /painters and why the management choses to keep them back in the shop and not let them converse with the customer. If by what you’ve explained qualifies you an “authority” on the body repair industry then it’s time for me to hang up my hat. If you want to keep throwing mud then by all means go ahead, but I’m going to stay on the path of actual facts.

Now to regurgitate what I already said: The paint makeup used on bumpers at the factory level( 2K Polyurethane ) is totally different then what is used on the metal bodies (1K or melamine). One is activated with heat and the other isn't. One is electrostatically applied and the other isn't. This is just one tiny component as to why paint on trim may not perfectly match the paint on the body. The other is that trim isn't painted at the same location that the bodies are painted at and are painted by OEM suppliers that could be on the other side of the planet from where the vehicle is assembled/painted. There is such a huge acceptable variance for color matching (at the factory level) that there could literally be multiple shades of colors on your car.