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Old 11-06-2016, 02:47 PM   #1
KoolBRZ
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Changing the Drive-By-Wire throttle map

As a sports car owner, I am offended by the fact that a stock Automatic FT86 can't keep up with a much of anything, econocars, SUV's, or minivans, in stop and go traffic.
The reason is, the cars just don't have enough low-end torque to accelerate in the same gear they are in. The gas pedal must be pressed at least 20% to trigger a downshift, and then, in a lower gear, at higher revs, it has so much power that it catches up to traffic dangerously quickly.
The solution I've found is to remap the throttle and to change the Final Drive. I believe the throttle needs to actually have less power up to 20%, then more power from 20% to 100%, in the lower rpm ranges below 3000 rpm's. It also needs less power above 3000 rpms in the 1 - 20% throttle ranges.
I've been backing up my words with action, by actually changing the throttle map, driving, changing, driving, and learning as I go.
A throttle map is only one map out of the hundreds that make up a tune. It is not a tune in and of itself. It does not change the maximum horsepower or torque of the engine. It simply changes how much goes where, at which pedal percentage and at which rpm. The actual air to fuel ratios, exhaust gas re-circulation, and emission controls are unchanged. These still work in the same relation, regardless of which throttle map is loaded.
In RomRaider, the throttle map I have been changing is called the Requested Torque B table. I've been getting good results, whether the engine is up to temp, or just warming up, by changing just this one table.
I'm posting this here because I use Open Source RomRaider tuning software so I can share what I learn with others, and learn from others who are willing to share. I'd like to hear from anyone else who has made changes to the throttle map, so I can learn from their experiences as well.
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Old 11-06-2016, 03:31 PM   #2
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I don't have problems keeping up with city traffic even with stock throttle mappings .. using MT.
Sorry, couldn't resist urge to troll a bit
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Old 11-06-2016, 03:36 PM   #3
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#mt.army
Any chance we can see the tables?
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Old 11-06-2016, 04:44 PM   #4
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Contact MRT in Plymouth Michigan. I'm prototyping their throttle controller exactly for this purpose. They'll have one they're bringing to market in the next month or so I was told
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ View Post
As a sports car owner, I am offended by the fact that a stock Automatic FT86 can't keep up with a much of anything, econocars, SUV's, or minivans, in stop and go traffic.
This statement is so stupid.
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Old 11-06-2016, 05:38 PM   #6
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I don't have this problem, but then again I drive a M/T.
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Old 11-06-2016, 07:35 PM   #7
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sirsol66: are you sure separate throttle controller is needed for this? Shouldn't all needed functionality for fir changing throttle maps already be there in our ecu firmware?
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Old 11-06-2016, 07:41 PM   #8
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Lol I just put a turbo on mine. No more low end power issues here.
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:13 PM   #9
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Sure. Open Source. No secrets here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Teseo View Post
#mt.army
Any chance we can see the tables?
Here is Shiv's OFT OTS table for comparison, then my current table, then a comparison between the two, and finally a comparison between my first Brute Force, (BRUT4S) table and the OTS table. My first BRUT4S table was really stout. It definitely had a lot more low end torque, but it was less driver-friendly my transmission shifted way too soon, 5th gear by 30 mph, It was proof I could get more power under 3000 rpms, but the transmission just didn't like it. I needed to move the same power farther down the gas pedal. I'm interested in working with anyone else with an automatic to create the most powerful and usable throttle map, that also shifts properly in automatic mode.
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sirsol66 View Post
Contact MRT in Plymouth Michigan. I'm prototyping their throttle controller exactly for this purpose. They'll have one they're bringing to market in the next month or so I was told
The table is 3 dimensional. How is a controller going to work in 3 dimensions? I've been changing cells in both rpm ranges as well as throttle pedal percentage ranges. I need to be able to add more power, but only at certain rpms and certain pedal percentages. For instance, I've tested and found that the transmission downshifts at a certain throttle pedal percentage. So, I need to adjust for that so that it downshifts immediately when more power is needed. Fortunately this is the kind of road tuning I can do without breaking any speed limits.
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Old 11-06-2016, 09:48 PM   #11
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It's not shiv's map, it's the OEM map.

If you want full power under 3000, press the pedal on the right further down.

Your wallet would cry tears of blood with that map if you were on E85.

Congrats, you've done exactly what all those stupid, gimmicky, ridiculous, throttle controllers do; removed the precision from the throttle and compressed it all into the first 30% of travel instead of the first 50% of travel. I suppose the good thing is that at least you've saved money.

You're fighting a losing battle. Wait for MY18 when they adapt the new parts for the 6AT and see what changes they make there. The fact they couldn't do it in time this year should tell you how incredibly difficult it is to make shifts smooth in auto mode due to the sensitivity of the throttle map.


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Originally Posted by KoolBRZ View Post
Here is Shiv's OFT OTS table for comparison, then my current table, then a comparison between the two, and finally a comparison between my first Brute Force, (BRUT4S) table and the OTS table. My first BRUT4S table was really stout. It definitely had a lot more low end torque, but it was less driver-friendly my transmission shifted way too soon, 5th gear by 30 mph, It was proof I could get more power under 3000 rpms, but the transmission just didn't like it. I needed to move the same power farther down the gas pedal. I'm interested in working with anyone else with an automatic to create the most powerful and usable throttle map, that also shifts properly in automatic mode.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:33 AM   #12
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So you can tell all that just by looking at it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayno View Post
It's not shiv's map, it's the OEM map.

If you want full power under 3000, press the pedal on the right further down.

Your wallet would cry tears of blood with that map if you were on E85.

Congrats, you've done exactly what all those stupid, gimmicky, ridiculous, throttle controllers do; removed the precision from the throttle and compressed it all into the first 30% of travel instead of the first 50% of travel. I suppose the good thing is that at least you've saved money.

You're fighting a losing battle. Wait for MY18 when they adapt the new parts for the 6AT and see what changes they make there. The fact they couldn't do it in time this year should tell you how incredibly difficult it is to make shifts smooth in auto mode due to the sensitivity of the throttle map.
That OEM throttle map wasn't precise for me. It was full of compensations for problems that no longer exist. My AVCS tables are smooth, so there is no need to compensate for any kind of torque dip or other irregularity.
Those stupid gimmicky controllers can't control in 3 dimensions, so there is no comparison with the changes I am making. As far as a losing battle goes, my car is driving better and better with each new map. Now when you talk about compressing the precision into the first 30%, it just isn't that big a change. Remember, I'm only changing the "B" table, not the "A" table, or the throttle plate tables. But since you haven't actually tried this table, you wouldn't know.
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Old 11-07-2016, 12:47 AM   #13
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@drewbot and @Cole do you have any problems with you a/t?
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Old 11-07-2016, 02:53 AM   #14
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I'm with @Wayno on this, you want more precision with the pedal rather than loads of unnecessary "response". I've spent months rejigging my throttle maps to the point where I'm happy. You need to learn the relationship, especially in an AT. I would expect that the maps you haven't touched will impact more of the gear changing characteristics.
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