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Old 12-11-2015, 03:01 PM   #225
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E10 stoich?

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Originally Posted by thambu19 View Post
Why 14.7 when stoich for e10 is 13.9? 14.7 is for e0 which isn't available anymore.

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A quick search with Google shows predominantly 14.13, rather than 13.9. Is that for WOT?
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Old 12-11-2015, 08:38 PM   #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ View Post
A quick search with Google shows predominantly 14.13, rather than 13.9. Is that for WOT?
13.9 is what I use at work so was strange to see Toyota tune it to 14.7 which is lean if running on E10. Up here in MI the ethanol content can be higher than 10% at times
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:31 PM   #227
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Target AFR 14.15%

Here in WA it's up to 10%. Especially in winter. My favorite station uses ethanol year-round though, so I'm changing my AFR table to 14.15 in the lowest sections, instead of 14.70. I also changed the BRZ port scalar 4.6%, since that was about how far it was off in CL. I know it gets the best mileage when it is just the tiniest bit lean in OL, so 14.15 should be a good target. This is the only table with AFR ratios I could find. It's an Open Loop table, but I think it is referenced for Closed Loop as well. See pic for more info. @thambu19, I only changed the 14.70 cells, or do you think I should re-scale the whole table 3.7% richer
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Old 12-11-2015, 09:38 PM   #228
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Here in WA it's up to 10%. Especially in winter. My favorite station uses ethanol year-round though, so I'm changing my AFR table to 14.15 in the lowest sections, instead of 14.70. I also changed the BRZ port scalar 4.6%, since that was about how far it was off in CL. I know it gets the best mileage when it is just the tiniest bit lean in OL, so 14.15 should be a good target. This is the only table with AFR ratios I could find. It's an Open Loop table, but I think it is referenced for Closed Loop as well. See pic for more info.
for closed loop you need to alter the closed loop fueling offset tables they are the offset off 14.7 so if the table has -0.7 in it it means you will target 14, theier are two tables a and b alter both
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:04 PM   #229
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In general running stoich or slightly rich will make the engine feel a lot better under load but ofcourse at the cost of Fuel economy
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:46 PM   #230
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for closed loop you need to alter the closed loop fueling offset tables they are the offset off 14.7 so if the table has -0.7 in it it means you will target 14, theier are two tables a and b alter both
I've also noticed this in OL operation where the "commanded AFR" is actually a bit leaner than the actual requested values on the OL fuel map. This really messes with the MAF scaling tool as it tries to match the MAF scale to the "commanded AFR" and not the actual requested AFR on the fuel table.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:56 PM   #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve99 View Post
for closed loop you need to alter the closed loop fueling offset tables they are the offset off 14.7 so if the table has -0.7 in it it means you will target 14, theier are two tables a and b alter both
@steve99, are these the tables to alter as well?
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:40 AM   #232
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@steve99, are these the tables to alter as well?
Yes they are the tables for closed loop, read the table properties in romraider, dont put 0 or positive values in as weird stuff happens and ecu ignors fuel trim compensations kind of open loop all the time.
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Old 12-12-2015, 06:42 AM   #233
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@KoolBRZ they also don't seem to actually change the AFR you target in closed loop. Anything leaner than the minimum open loop enrichment value in the primary open loop fueling table is ignored and the closed loop fueling tables are referenced, however the ECU does seem to try and target stoich at all times.
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Old 12-12-2015, 01:27 PM   #234
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Yeah, I thought maybe I could take the easy route and just change anything 14.7 in the definition to 14.13, but the calculations are more complex than that.
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Old 12-12-2015, 02:01 PM   #235
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OK, this should do it

Here are my re-scaled Open Loop and Closed Loop tables that should bring my AFR down to 14.15. I just added .55 to all the cells in the A and B Compensation tables. I'll load up the tune and try it out this morning before I do my transmission fluid service/refresh, since I need it up to 42 C to measure correctly.
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Old 12-12-2015, 07:10 PM   #236
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OK. Got the comp cells to all be negative values, and took it for a test drive again. Here is a log I took, http://datazap.me/u/koolbrz/1st-e10-...g=0&data=1-4-9 @thambu19, is there any way you could create a table of recommended AFR's by Engine Load and RPM's. I want to try getting my logs closer to stoich with the E10 I'm running now.
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Old 12-13-2015, 04:12 AM   #237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolBRZ View Post
OK. Got the comp cells to all be negative values, and took it for a test drive again. Here is a log I took, http://datazap.me/u/koolbrz/1st-e10-...g=0&data=1-4-9 @thambu19, is there any way you could create a table of recommended AFR's by Engine Load and RPM's. I want to try getting my logs closer to stoich with the E10 I'm running now.
The ECU will show 14.7 at stoich for any fuel, so when it reads 14.7 you are at stoich for your fuel. The AFR reading is derived from the O2 sensor scale but the sensor works in lambda, lambda 1 is stoich and the sensor scale means that it shows 14.7. All you're doing is making it a percentage richer than that. I'm also not sure why you're doing what you're doing, all you're doing is reducing economy....

The real "workaround" for this would be to change your O2 scale, however the ECU will try and target 14.7 so you'll actually make it run leaner
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Old 12-13-2015, 05:46 AM   #238
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CL target afr=14.7 + value in closed loop table

there are probably some other compensations as well.

as you have put bigger negitive values in them the car is runnung richer in closed loop.

if you want to run close to 14.7 then put -0.01 in the cells in both the A and B tables.

As these tables are reverse engineered the ecu code often has multiple references to same table hence the need to change 2 identical tables.

As @Kodename47 said the ecu logic prevents targeting leaner than 14.7 and putting positive values in does not work, putting zero in appears to disable ltft in that area.
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