Paint Protection

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Ceramic coatings are many times harder than the clear coat of your paint. It is in fact a coating, and it does increase the harness.

It offers zero protection form swirl marks, impact, or any other physical contact. It is not a barrier such as wax or film.

[misterfly]

3m all around with mudflap it's the way to go , In quebec is 2,5 to 3k to do a complete car , put this amount on the car and take a check from the dealer go to your best shop and that it

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It offers zero protection form swirl marks, impact, or any other physical contact. It is not a barrier such as wax or film.

Depending on what you’re swirling with, it does in fact offer protection from swirl marks. It is a barrier, many MANY times harder than wax.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

Depending on what you’re swirling with, it does in fact offer protection from swirl marks. It is a barrier, many MANY times harder than wax.

You may want to look beyond the manufacturer claims.

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You may want to look beyond the manufacturer claims.

Lol.
What's the harness of Toyota's clear coat? What's the hardness of your coating?

[Decep]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Let's be clear (no pun intended) in that ceramic is in no way, shape, or form a protective coating. The name is deceiving in that it implies it leaves some sort of hard coating. It doesn't. What it does do is penetrate the small spaces in the paint at a molecular level to make the surface super slick and shiny. The only "protection" it offers is that things don't stick as easy.

The PFF on the bumper will help with the very tiny bits that hit it but anything much bigger just tears it and chips the paint anyway. After a few thousand miles the PFF can actually look worse than the paint! And if worried about cost I wouldn't pay anybody to do that anymore than apply ceramic since it is just as "easy" to apply as ceramic and just as expensive.

With what it costs to do a bumper I will just get it resprayed every couple of years when it get's too nasty.

There's a ton of BS out there with ceramic coating but it DOES offer a very thin layer of protection, if you've looked at stuff that has been coated with a microscope. I'm not at all saying it helps against rocks or impacts but it does form a layer over your paint to HELP prevent etching from bird shit etc.

Disagree about PPF looking worse than paint after a few thousand miles, maybe it was true years ago but the modern stuff is incredible. As long as you stick with the good stuff like 3m and xpel.

And i dont know where you get the idea that applying PPF is the same job in terms of difficulty as applying ceramic coating. If you can wax a car you can apply ceramic coating, can't say the same for PPF, that stuff is a pain in the ass. Ceramic coating is piss easy and there's a lot of pros out there sending their kids to college off this stuff (all the more power to them).

[JD001]

Originally Posted by Decep

There's a ton of BS out there with ceramic coating but it DOES offer a very thin layer of protection, if you've looked at stuff that has been coated with a microscope. I'm not at all saying it helps against rocks or impacts but it does form a layer over your paint to HELP prevent etching from bird shit etc.

Disagree about PPF looking worse than paint after a few thousand miles, maybe it was true years ago but the modern stuff is incredible. As long as you stick with the good stuff like 3m and xpel.

And i dont know where you get the idea that applying PPF is the same job in terms of difficulty as applying ceramic coating. If you can wax a car you can apply ceramic coating, can't say the same for PPF, that stuff is a pain in the ass. Ceramic coating is piss easy and there's a lot of pros out there sending their kids to college off this stuff (all the more power to them).

I agree that PPF coatings have come a long way in the recent years. I had used it back in 2004 on my Lotus Exige. As for ceramic coating, my BRZeee was treated to a coating about 7years ago, it was a drawn out affair, something that I wouldn't do myself.. not having the patience or the right tools to correct paint etc..

I suppose if you were torn between the two, why not start with the PPF and then switch to ceramic if the PPF fails...

[Decep]

PPF is a film not a coating (typo?)

The 3m stuff i had put on my wife's CX5 is a 10 year warranty against lifting and yellowing, any 3m approved shop takes care of it.

Ceramic you're going to get 1-3 years, maybe more if you garage your car all the time and don't drive in bad conditions and take very good care of the car. Some coatings will claim 5 years or more, but in the fine print it requires topping the coating with a spray sealant, so at that point you don't even know what's causing water to bead off your paint.. the sealant or the coating.

[Stephen W.]

I have posted this a couple of times now. It's the story of my 2018 CBP tS getting coated. I'm very happy with the results. Although full disclosure, the car lives in the garage. It has less than 17k (kilometers) and only a couple hundred of those on bad roads or in weather. So take my example as a best case.

My main thing was having a professional do the paint prep. I feel it makes the most of which ever product you end up with.
Because I did drive the car in salt this past winter I will pay the $250 to have him go over the entire car and redo the top coat. It'll still be less than the cost of a full body wrap would have been.
I think there are three posts with pics on this page starting here:
https://www.ft86club.com/forums/show...ic#post3222082

[Tokay444]

Originally Posted by Decep

PPF is a film not a coating (typo?)

The 3m stuff i had put on my wife's CX5 is a 10 year warranty against lifting and yellowing, any 3m approved shop takes care of it.

Ceramic you're going to get 1-3 years, maybe more if you garage your car all the time and don't drive in bad conditions and take very good care of the car. Some coatings will claim 5 years or more, but in the fine print it requires topping the coating with a spray sealant, so at that point you don't even know what's causing water to bead off your paint.. the sealant or the coating.

My ceramic has a 9 year warranty. It’s 5 years old and still does exactly what it should, 200,000kms of daily Canada driving later.

[saltywetman]

Ceramic coating just fills the micro pits of the clear coat preventing contaminants from getting lodged into these gaps which also allows water to easily bead off vs getting trapped into the imperfect surface. It essentially makes your top coat "smoother" but really offers minimal to no physical protection. No matter how many layers of ceramic coating you put on it is nanometers thick unlike wax which is a thick soft coat.

PPF is the better way to offer a bit of physical protection to the paint but depending on the film you get, it's not something that can be left on forever and needs to be removed with new film reapplied after an x amount of years. I believe most films say to not leave on for longer than 5-10 years. Not that the film goes bad, but it's the duration companies are willing to guarantee safe removal of the adhesive film from the paint, film left on for longer than the recommended age has the risk of damaging the paint upon removal.

If i were to do it again, I would ppf the entire vehicle followed by ceramic coat. I currently have full front with the entire car ceramic coated and there are less swirls on the filmed areas vs the ceramic coated clear coat. PPF tend to be self healing for minor scuffs and scratches therefore swirls disappear whereas ceramic coating be more easily physically marred.

[Decep]

Originally Posted by saltywetman

Ceramic coating just fills the micro pits of the clear coat preventing contaminants from getting lodged into these gaps which also allows water to easily bead off vs getting trapped into the imperfect surface. It essentially makes your top coat "smoother" but really offers minimal to no physical protection. No matter how many layers of ceramic coating you put on it is nanometers thick unlike wax which is a thick soft coat.

PPF is the better way to offer a bit of physical protection to the paint but depending on the film you get, it's not something that can be left on forever and needs to be removed with new film reapplied after an x amount of years. I believe most films say to not leave on for longer than 5-10 years. Not that the film goes bad, but it's the duration companies are willing to guarantee safe removal of the adhesive film from the paint, film left on for longer than the recommended age has the risk of damaging the paint upon removal.

If i were to do it again, I would ppf the entire vehicle followed by ceramic coat. I currently have full front with the entire car ceramic coated and there are less swirls on the filmed areas vs the ceramic coated clear coat. PPF tend to be self healing for minor scuffs and scratches therefore swirls disappear whereas ceramic coating be more easily physically marred.

^ The statement about wax being a thicker coat than ceramic intrigues me, have never heard that. Source?

[CincyJohn]

I don't understand half of these posts. PPF and ceramic coating are two entirely different things that serve two entirely different purposes.

PPF's main (sole?) purpose is to protect against rock chips, scrapes, etc.
Ceramic's main (sole?) purpose is to bond with/on top of the clear coat to provide a smoother surface which thereby has a lower coefficient of friction meaning that dirt/bird poo/rain (with dirt inside) don't stick as easily.

Is this really that difficult to understand?

[Spektyr]

Originally Posted by CincyJohn

I don't understand half of these posts. PPF and ceramic coating are two entirely different things that serve two entirely different purposes.

PPF's main (sole?) purpose is to protect against rock chips, scrapes, etc.
Ceramic's main (sole?) purpose is to bond with/on top of the clear coat to provide a smoother surface which thereby has a lower coefficient of friction meaning that dirt/bird poo/rain (with dirt inside) don't stick as easily.

Is this really that difficult to understand?

Exactly. Both will protect your car, but in different ways and from different things.

Both have roughly the same skillset requirement for paint correction before application. PPF requires an entirely different and significantly higher skillset to apply at that point.

Ceramic may not be scratch-proof, but it is (to varying degrees) more scratch-resistant than clearcoat. It's like a watch face. A mineral crystal watch face is certainly not scratch-proof, but it's harder to scratch than plastic. Sapphire crystal faces are harder yet to scratch, but as a co-worker of mine discovered (much to his displeasure) it's still possible to scratch the face of a $5,000 watch.

So there is some middle ground - at least theoretically - where a ceramic coated car would shrug off a potential scratch unscathed, while an uncoated car would get scratched.

Ceramic coatings are also more resistant to pollutants and such. Again, not impervious, but better than your paint alone.


Still, the primary function is to create a deeper shine that lasts longer than wax. The protective qualities, however limited, are a secondary benefit.


Personally, if I were to go PPF I'd probably skip straight to vinyl wrap. I think the car should've been offered in British Racing Green anyway. But for budgetary reasons I'm going to DIY a paint correction and ceramic coat and just enjoy the still-very-nice Trueno Blue.