The 0W-20 Oil Change Hustle & DIY vs carfax documentation

[Spuds]

I just do the maintenance and record what I did when. I only keep receipts for work someone else did.

If I'm selling a car, they either believe me or they can move on. Never had a warranty issue where it mattered.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by dsc_pat

I always film the mileage, the VIN on the door frame, the new filter and the oil jug. Never had a problem with dealers.

I don't think many actually do have problems with dealers on this. But when they do they make sure everybody knows it!

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by C R

Pennzoil 5W-30 full synthetic is good stuff from what I've read, I ran it on a bunch of my turbo trucks and Explorer ST (twin turbo 3.0). Then again, I think most of the modern synthetic oils are excellent and like NoHaveMSG mentioned, we tend to overthink it. Even the Amazon branded oil seems to be pretty great; have you seen Project Farm's oil testing videos?

The one oil I found recently that has a huge following is Shell's Rotella T6 Diesel Oil, lots of people claiming that's all they use on their trucks/cars and even bikes due to the additive package they use.

The official response is "any oil with the SAE certification on the label is the same quality as any other oil."

The personal response is that I feel better paying for something more name brand than the generic Walmart oil.

Tldr: oil's oil, you do you.

[fredzy]

Can anyone link me to the mammoth oil analysis thread for first gen cars that I'm sure must exist, but I can't seem to find? Want to see how different oils held up in first gen 2.0.

There is a good one on NASIOC for the FA20DIT. I settled on Mobil 1 ESP 5W30 for my WRX. The emissions systems protection additive package helps mitigate DI carbon fouling (my top concern) and it has the happy bonus of coming in at the very top end of 5W30 viscosity range when new. Checked it at 1200mi after the engine did it's initial food-processing of the oil molecules, then 5000mi and somehow stayed in 5W30 viscosity range despite boxer-chop and fuel dilution. The regular M1 5W30 I ran after first oil change was water by 5000mi.

I'm thinking to go ESP 0W20, analyze the oil and maybe go to three parts 0W20/two parts 0W30 if viscosity drops too low by 5000mi.

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by Brock H.

Thinner oil is used in modern engines for good reason, and its not for "winter/cold" conditions.

It's so they can meet their gas mileage goals.

Originally Posted by dsc_pat

I always film the mileage, the VIN on the door frame, the new filter and the oil jug.

Add a dated newspaper to the vid and you're bulletproof?

[NikolaiCherepanov]

Originally Posted by *Axel

I was contemplating the dilemma of changing my oil vs having it serviced for carfax documentation. I don't trust service places or dealerships. I don't want the dealership touching my car ever again.

Then there's the pressure to use watery thin 0W-20, knowing that it's a bad choice for my use case. I RTFMed the issue:


From 2022 BRZ Owners Manual

p 381
In choosing an oil, you want the proper quality and viscosity, as well as one that will enhance fuel economy. Oils of lower viscosity provide better fuel economy. However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine. The following table lists the recommended viscosities and applicable temperatures.

p. 382
Specifications
 When adding oil, different brands may be used together as long as they are the same API classification and SAE viscosity
as those recommended by SUBARU.

0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil for optimum engine performance and protection. Conventional oil may be used if synthetic oil is unavailable.

*: If 0W-20 synthetic oil is not available, 5W-30 conventional oil may be used if you need to add oil.
However, you should change to 0W-20 synthetic oil at the next oil change.
--

This is very ambiguous legal speak to pressure the use of 0W-20. 0W-20 is a cold climate oil.

Notice the use of the words "required" and "should." It doesn't say "0W-20 synthetic oil is the required oil-PERIOD. It says "...required oil for optimum engine performance and protection." i.e. gas mileage and cold winter protection.

On page 381: "However, in hot weather, oil of higher viscosity is required to properly lubricate the engine. The following table lists the recommended viscosities and applicable temperatures." Notice, in the table, the only other viscosity mentioned is conventional 5W-30. BUT only if you are adding oil, not changing it; then "should" go back to 0W-20 at next oil change. It then shows a temperature graph only applicable to 0W-20.

The phrase "required oil for optimum engine performance and protection" provides a loophole where the higher viscosity stated (5W-30) may be used, although less than "optimum."

So what I deduce from the ambiguous legal speak in the owners manual is this. I can use 5W-30 if I want to, all year long; since I don't live in the Northern US, Canada, or the North Pole. HA!

I imagine the watery thin oil reduces engine life increasing vehicle sales and service.

I gravitate toward higher viscosities.

I suppose it's a bit of a gamble. If engine warranty work is needed, they may refuse. However the chance of engine failure is small, considering the care in which I take of my vehicles. My feeling is that the 5W-30 will result in longer engine life.

You are thinking way too much into this.
1) Most people do not drive their cars past the warranty period (at least those that buy brand new cars)

2) ICE's have become increasingly efficient and tolerances between metal parts have been decreased and drastically changed from even 30 years ago

3) Engineers probably know the tolerances of oil films than some random person online

4) If you are DD your car why is thin oil and issue and are you letting it heat up properly before beating on it? Are you driving it and not letting it idle all the time? Both of things thing increase engine wear

5) Use a high quality oil and change every 3K miles and you shouldn't have issues I personally use LiquiMoly oils in all my cars

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by NikolaiCherepanov

5) Use a high quality oil and change every 3K miles and you shouldn't have issues I personally use LiquiMoly oils in all my cars

I agree with everything you said except the 3k change interval.

Change interval should be dictated by the amount of additives left in the oil. Otherwise, an arbitrary 3k interval is just throwing money away... and over the course of 60k of driving you're throwing away 10 oil changes.

[NikolaiCherepanov]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I agree with everything you said except the 3k change interval.

Change interval should be dictated by the amount of additives left in the oil. Otherwise, an arbitrary 3k interval is just throwing money away... and over the course of 60k of driving you're throwing away 10 oil changes.

A Subaru tech on youtube (cant remember his name) said 3K is perfectly fine and potentially reduces the amount of oil that goes through the PCV system/ reduces the amount of burnt oil. In my other cars (all 90's European cars) I change at 3K miles because they 1. Burn 1qt of oil ever ~2K miles 2. Are not known to be the best when you run them low on oil, or keep dirty oil in them. Id rather waste some money on oil and play it safe than save a few bucks and end up with engine failure down the road. If these cars were Camrys sure id run them 7-10K per oil change but they aren't so I play it safe.

[CincyJohn]

Originally Posted by NikolaiCherepanov

A Subaru tech on youtube (cant remember his name) said 3K is perfectly fine and potentially reduces the amount of oil that goes through the PCV system/ reduces the amount of burnt oil. In my other cars (all 90's European cars) I change at 3K miles because they 1. Burn 1qt of oil ever ~2K miles 2. Are not known to be the best when you run them low on oil, or keep dirty oil in them. Id rather waste some money on oil and play it safe than save a few bucks and end up with engine failure down the road. If these cars were Camrys sure id run them 7-10K per oil change but they aren't so I play it safe.

3k for today's fully synthetic oil in an engine like ours is absolutely ludicrous (assuming you don't track/flog it all of those miles). All of the evidence I have seen (i.e. oil analysis data) is that you are perfectly fine at 10k, particularly with a daily driver like mine that does 20-25k a year of almost entirely highway miles.

Of course, it's your time and money - feel free to do with it as you please.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by NikolaiCherepanov

A Subaru tech on youtube (cant remember his name) said 3K is perfectly fine and potentially reduces the amount of oil that goes through the PCV system/ reduces the amount of burnt oil. In my other cars (all 90's European cars) I change at 3K miles because they 1. Burn 1qt of oil ever ~2K miles 2. Are not known to be the best when you run them low on oil, or keep dirty oil in them. Id rather waste some money on oil and play it safe than save a few bucks and end up with engine failure down the road. If these cars were Camrys sure id run them 7-10K per oil change but they aren't so I play it safe.

If you want to trust a YouTube mechanic vs. a decade of UOA data here go right ahead

[Ultramaroon]

Before oil cooler I averaged about 3500 miles before I could no longer bear hearing the engine clatter from the slightly used oil. UOA confirmed that I was wasting money.

After cooler it's been smooth right through the 7500-mile change interval. UOA says I'm still wasting money but I sleep better.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by NikolaiCherepanov

A Subaru tech on youtube (cant remember his name) said 3K is perfectly fine and potentially reduces the amount of oil that goes through the PCV system/ reduces the amount of burnt oil. In my other cars (all 90's European cars) I change at 3K miles because they 1. Burn 1qt of oil ever ~2K miles 2. Are not known to be the best when you run them low on oil, or keep dirty oil in them. Id rather waste some money on oil and play it safe than save a few bucks and end up with engine failure down the road. If these cars were Camrys sure id run them 7-10K per oil change but they aren't so I play it safe.

I didn't burn any oil worth noting, about the worst was like 1/2 quarts over 8k+ miles.

I also did UOA and probably would have extended my oil change intervals up to 10k had I not been actively tracking the car every month.

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39983

[NikolaiCherepanov]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

If you want to trust a YouTube mechanic vs. a decade of UOA data here go right ahead

So because someone has a YouTube channel they aren't a credible source of information?

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by NikolaiCherepanov

So because someone has a YouTube channel they aren't a credible source of information?

Amateur attempt at twisting the point. Please argue in good faith. Even I'm admitting that my 3500-mile changes are BS.