Spun bearing at 84k....??

[ric342]

Hello, let me first start with the fact that I purchased this car in May of 2012 and have enjoyed every day with this car.

I must also add that I had indeed taken my car to the track and participated in a couple autocross events, after every session all the fluids were changed.

Now for the context, right before the pandemic I had taken my car to the dealer for the valve spring recall, coincidentally the throw-out bearing was about to go out and they took care of that too(did the clutch flywheel, fork, and bearing).
The car at the time had a bit over 59k and I had already done the plugs, trans, diff, and made sure to change the oil every 5k or 2 time per year 0W-20 full synth, I have records for all serviced because I work at a shop (made sure to document it all).
While it was at the dealer they took about 3 weeks to get the job done, the car no prior issues other than the notorious chirping, and the fact that the timing cover had started leaking around 45k miles and 5 years(on this job the dealer and I went 50-50 on the job because it was just out of warranty due to time.)
I picked the car up with the only issue being that the tech had gunned down my water pump pully and cracked it(I had just put on the greddy pully kit weeks before). The dealer took responsibility and ordered a whole new kit and installed it, months later the lock down happed and even though I was still working I was putting only a handful of miles per day and most of them were highway.
I continued to service the car, even went as far as to upgrade the cooling system with a Mishimoto rad, thermostat, and cooling fan.

Now the day of the incident, I had just got my car back from Chewerks(they corner balanced and aligned the car, and I had just put on RE-71RS tires). I went to Neptune's net with my buddy around 3pm with no issues, after eating we got into my car and were about to head down the PCH to Mulholland drive and take Latigo down and hit the 1 and head back home(was the first time back in the canyons since the pandemic, not for lack of wanting, but because there were wild fires that had caused those roads to be closed to the public throughout the pandemic.)

I start the car, ease off the clutch and it dies on me, odd I thought, but I have a lightweight flywheel so I passed it off as not enough feathering of the clutch, I start it up again and it fires up.
No CEL but as I go to pull out of the parking spot the car starts to make a sound that sounded like a bad pully, but only on acceleration.
I brush it off as something that would pass, the noise would only occur when I would hit the gas, on neutral the engine would sound normal, thus I pressed on.
I drive and the noise does not get better or worse, again no CEL, no loss of power, just a noise.
I turn onto Mulholland and decide to turn back and head home not wanting to risk anything due to the fact that there is no reception on this back road and it is very narrow. As I am about to turn around the car dies.
I try to start it but it just cranks. I push the car to a small dirt side and proceed to walk back to the PCH, about half a mile. I call my buddy who had rebuilt his own FA-20 and he was cool enough to come through, he brought his tech stream and we did some tests.

By the time he got to me it had been about an hour later and the car actually started, but now the noise was occurring irregularly and not only on acceleration.
We first started by cutting off the fuel and the engine would crank fine, the next step was to check for cylinder compression, shutting one off at a time to see if the noise got worse, there was compression on all the cylinders and the noise was still irregular. We were both at a loss, on his FA-20 he had spun a bearing and the noise was a constant ticking, mine was tick, tick tick tick, tick, tick tick, tick, tick, tick tick tick.
I had it taken to my shop and we tore the engine apart and found that the piston on cylinder 3 was rubbing up against the cylinder wall. No warning, no CEL.

Now I need a new engine, I had called the dealer and they told me to pound sand, I then proceeded to call Toyota corporate and they too told me to pound sand. I have been an active member in this community since 2012 and love my car but I believe that it is crazy that the motor went out so soon. Is there anyone out there that can provide some insight as to how this could happen, and it is a shot in the dark, but does anyone have any contacts that could help me out? Toyota corporate or perhaps a lawyer familiar with this engine that could help.
Thanks x808drifter!

[Tcoat]

If I read this right then the last engine work performed was 2 years and 25Kmiles ago.

It is a 10 year old car that is so far out of warranty that expecting them to cover it is but a dream.

Yes it us "early" failure compared to many still going strong but there is not a hope in hell that anybody at Toyota is going to cover it for you.

Hell, the lightweight flywheel alone could get warranty denied even if still in the mileage/time.

At least it sounds like you have the resources and knowledge to throw a new engine in yourself.

[LRNAD90]

Assume you have looked at the oil pickup and verified it is clean..

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Assume you have looked at the oil pickup and verified it is clean..

Considering it has had both the recall and a reseal of the timing cover done odds are it is not clean.

[LRNAD90]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Considering it has had both the recall and a reseal of the timing cover done odds are it is not clean.

Seems like the first thing to look for, given all the reports of oiling related failures..

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Seems like the first thing to look for, given all the reports of oiling related failures..

Would give a possible cause but would not help him in getting Toyota to cover it. Just simply too long and too many miles.

[x808drifter]

Do paragraphs not exist were you're from???
Fixed the literal wall of text for you.

Originally Posted by ric342

Hello, let me first start with the fact that I purchased this car in May of 2012 and have enjoyed every day with this car.

I must also add that I had indeed taken my car to the track and participated in a couple autocross events, after every session all the fluids were changed.

Now for the context, right before the pandemic I had taken my car to the dealer for the valve spring recall, coincidentally the throw-out bearing was about to go out and they took care of that too(did the clutch flywheel, fork, and bearing).
The car at the time had a bit over 59k and I had already done the plugs, trans, diff, and made sure to change the oil every 5k or 2 time per year 0W-20 full synth, I have records for all serviced because I work at a shop (made sure to document it all).
While it was at the dealer they took about 3 weeks to get the job done, the car no prior issues other than the notorious chirping, and the fact that the timing cover had started leaking around 45k miles and 5 years(on this job the dealer and I went 50-50 on the job because it was just out of warranty due to time.)
I picked the car up with the only issue being that the tech had gunned down my water pump pully and cracked it(I had just put on the greddy pully kit weeks before). The dealer took responsibility and ordered a whole new kit and installed it, months later the lock down happed and even though I was still working I was putting only a handful of miles per day and most of them were highway.
I continued to service the car, even went as far as to upgrade the cooling system with a Mishimoto rad, thermostat, and cooling fan.

Now the day of the incident, I had just got my car back from Chewerks(they corner balanced and aligned the car, and I had just put on RE-71RS tires). I went to Neptune's net with my buddy around 3pm with no issues, after eating we got into my car and were about to head down the PCH to Mulholland drive and take Latigo down and hit the 1 and head back home(was the first time back in the canyons since the pandemic, not for lack of wanting, but because there were wild fires that had caused those roads to be closed to the public throughout the pandemic.)

I start the car, ease off the clutch and it dies on me, odd I thought, but I have a lightweight flywheel so I passed it off as not enough feathering of the clutch, I start it up again and it fires up.
No CEL but as I go to pull out of the parking spot the car starts to make a sound that sounded like a bad pully, but only on acceleration.
I brush it off as something that would pass, the noise would only occur when I would hit the gas, on neutral the engine would sound normal, thus I pressed on.
I drive and the noise does not get better or worse, again no CEL, no loss of power, just a noise.
I turn onto Mulholland and decide to turn back and head home not wanting to risk anything due to the fact that there is no reception on this back road and it is very narrow. As I am about to turn around the car dies.
I try to start it but it just cranks. I push the car to a small dirt side and proceed to walk back to the PCH, about half a mile. I call my buddy who had rebuilt his own FA-20 and he was cool enough to come through, he brought his tech stream and we did some tests.

By the time he got to me it had been about an hour later and the car actually started, but now the noise was occurring irregularly and not only on acceleration.
We first started by cutting off the fuel and the engine would crank fine, the next step was to check for cylinder compression, shutting one off at a time to see if the noise got worse, there was compression on all the cylinders and the noise was still irregular. We were both at a loss, on his FA-20 he had spun a bearing and the noise was a constant ticking, mine was tick, tick tick tick, tick, tick tick, tick, tick, tick tick tick.
I had it taken to my shop and we tore the engine apart and found that the piston on cylinder 3 was rubbing up against the cylinder wall. No warning, no CEL.

Now I need a new engine, I had called the dealer and they told me to pound sand, I then proceeded to call Toyota corporate and they too told me to pound sand. I have been an active member in this community since 2012 and love my car but I believe that it is crazy that the motor went out so soon. Is there anyone out there that can provide some insight as to how this could happen, and it is a shot in the dark, but does anyone have any contacts that could help me out? Toyota corporate or perhaps a lawyer familiar with this engine that could help.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by x808drifter

Do paragraphs not exist were you're from???
Fixed the literal wall of text for you.

Was a rough read but not impossible.
Not as bad as our Production Manager at work that would not only write a wall of text but also capitalize the first letter of every single word.

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by ric342

Hello, let me first start with the fact that I purchased this car in May of 2012 and have enjoyed every day with this car. I must also add that I had indeed taken my car to the track and participated in a couple autocross events, after every session all the fluids were changed. Now for the context, right before the pandemic I had taken my car to the dealer for the valve spring recall, coincidentally the throw-out bearing was about to go out and they took care of that too(did the clutch flywheel, fork, and bearing). The car at the time had a bit over 59k and I had already done the plugs, trans, diff, and made sure to change the oil every 5k or 2 time per year 0W-20 full synth, I have records for all serviced because I work at a shop (made sure to document it all). While it was at the dealer they took about 3 weeks to get the job done, the car no prior issues other than the notorious chirping, and the fact that the timing cover had started leaking around 45k miles and 5 years(on this job the dealer and I went 50-50 on the job because it was just out of warranty due to time.) I picked the car up with the only issue being that the tech had gunned down my water pump pully and cracked it(I had just put on the greddy pully kit weeks before). The dealer took responsibility and ordered a whole new kit and installed it, months later the lock down happed and even though I was still working I was putting only a handful of miles per day and most of them were highway. I continued to service the car, even went as far as to upgrade the cooling system with a Mishimoto rad, thermostat, and cooling fan. Now the day of the incident, I had just got my car back from Chewerks(they corner balanced and aligned the car, and I had just put on RE-71RS tires). I went to Neptune's net with my buddy around 3pm with no issues, after eating we got into my car and were about to head down the PCH to Mulholland drive and take Latigo down and hit the 1 and head back home(was the first time back in the canyons since the pandemic, not for lack of wanting, but because there were wild fires that had caused those roads to be closed to the public throughout the pandemic.) I start the car, ease off the clutch and it dies on me, odd I thought, but I have a lightweight flywheel so I passed it off as not enough feathering of the clutch, I start it up again and it fires up. No CEL but as I go to pull out of the parking spot the car starts to make a sound that sounded like a bad pully, but only on acceleration. I brush it off as something that would pass, the noise would only occur when I would hit the gas, on neutral the engine would sound normal, thus I pressed on. I drive and the noise does not get better or worse, again no CEL, no loss of power, just a noise. I turn onto Mulholland and decide to turn back and head home not wanting to risk anything due to the fact that there is no reception on this back road and it is very narrow. As I am about to turn around the car dies. I try to start it but it just cranks. I push the car to a small dirt side and proceed to walk back to the PCH, about half a mile. I call my buddy who had rebuilt his own FA-20 and he was cool enough to come through, he brought his tech stream and we did some tests. By the time he got to me it had been about an hour later and the car actually started, but now the noise was occurring irregularly and not only on acceleration. We first started by cutting off the fuel and the engine would crank fine, the next step was to check for cylinder compression, shutting one off at a time to see if the noise got worse, there was compression on all the cylinders and the noise was still irregular. We were both at a loss, on his FA-20 he had spun a bearing and the noise was a constant ticking, mine was tick, tick tick tick, tick, tick tick, tick, tick, tick tick tick. I had it taken to my shop and we tore the engine apart and found that the piston on cylinder 3 was rubbing up against the cylinder wall. No warning, no CEL. Now I need a new engine, I had called the dealer and they told me to pound sand, I then proceeded to call Toyota corporate and they too told me to pound sand. I have been an active member in this community since 2012 and love my car but I believe that it is crazy that the motor went out so soon. Is there anyone out there that can provide some insight as to how this could happen, and it is a shot in the dark, but does anyone have any contacts that could help me out? Toyota corporate or perhaps a lawyer familiar with this engine that could help.

use paragraphs and your post will become readable.

Besides that, you’re SOL. Been there done that. The tech that did the recall screwed up the resealing of the timing cover and/or got some of the old sealant in the motor.

The dealers don’t allow the tech’s enough time to do the job properly so they hurry through the process. Just get a new motor and be done with it. You’ll save yourself a lot of grief trying to fight it

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

The dealers don’t allow the tech’s enough time to do the job properly so they hurry through the process.

Dealer's don't set book time, the manufacturer does. Even though a lot of dealers usually quote or charge book time X 1.XX for regular work, they can only charge warranty or recall work what they are compensated for by the manufacturer.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Was a rough read but not impossible.
Not as bad as our Production Manager at work that would not only write a wall of text but also capitalize the first letter of every single word.

Our shipping and receiving department always sends emails IN ALL CAPS WITH NO PUNCTUATIONS AND IT IS REALLY HAD TO READ WHEN THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT MULTIPLE THINGS IN THE SAME EMAIL I USED TO PRINT THE EMAIL AND POST IT IN THE BREAK ROOM WITH A NOTE THAT SAID WHICH CHILD WROTE THIS TO ME SINCE THERE EMAILS COME FROM A GENERIC ADDRESS AND NONE OF THEM EVER PUT THEIR NAME AT THE BOTTOM SO I KNOW WHO TO TALK TO IF I HAVE A QUESTION

[TommyW]

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

Dealer's don't set book time, the manufacturer does. Even though a lot of dealers usually quote or charge book time X 1.XX for regular work, they can only charge warranty or recall work what they are compensated for by the manufacturer.

So when all the smoke clears they need their tech's to get the job done in a certain amount of time so they don't lose money is the way I understand it.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by TommyW

So when all the smoke clears they need their tech's to get the job done in a certain amount of time so they don't lose money is the way I understand it.

They wouldn't lose money so much as limit the revenue they could potentially make. In the end when you are working flat rate the tech is only getting paid for the book time it takes to do the job. If it's 10 hours and he gets it done in 20, he is paid for 10 and the shop lost the chance to bill 10 more hours he could have been doing something else. If he gets it done in 8 and it pays 10, he gets 10 and that is two extra hours he can be working on something else.

You said you build houses for a living, you know what it is like. You bid a job, and unless there is some circumstance that requires the bid be adjusted, you get paid what you bid.

[ric342]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

Assume you have looked at the oil pickup and verified it is clean..

Oil pickup did have silicone, and when I removed the timing cover the tech had used way too much of it. I'm installing a new short block and moving on. It is what it is.