Prepare FA20 for Turbo?

[WorstCaseOntario]

I've been looking into getting my 2013 BRZ boosted with a Greddy turbo as well as ITB's. Similar set-ups have shown ~300WHP. I'm new to modding cars, so I'm curious as to what kind of upgrades I'll need to prep the car. So far I've heard new rods, injectors and oil coolers are a must-have.

sorry if something like this has already been posted, not really good at using forums.

[SUB-FT86]

I've been making that for 4 years come July 4th(2017) without upgraded rods but it's nice if you want the peace of mind I guess.I also daily drive my car with 0w40 Castrol Edge, jdl oil cooler, radium catch can, vented varis hood, p3 boost guage plus and full exhaust 2.5 OD.

[Tcoat]

https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=78

[HKz]

A spare engine

[PulsarBeeerz]

I would do much more research before you do anything. Greddy turbo kit (if you can find one) and ITBs(not worth it), you are already $7k-8K in with just the basic hardware.

[BrahmaBull1990]

Originally Posted by HKz

A spare engine

Why does everyone think the engine will explode with less than 300hp. People post when they have issues, not when everything is going well.

[x808drifter]

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990

Why does everyone think the engine will explode with less than 300hp. People post when they have issues, not when everything is going well.

I think the comment is meant as have funds available for a new engine.
Just prudent planning.

[BrahmaBull1990]

Originally Posted by x808drifter

I think the comment is meant as have funds available for a new engine.
Just prudent planning.

Ahhh okay. I’m sensitive today

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990

Why does everyone think the engine will explode with less than 300hp. People post when they have issues, not when everything is going well.

First off there is no magic number. The "300HP"gets bantered around so much that I think people somehow believe it is somehow a cut off point. It isn't. They have blown up well under and over 300HP. It is a pet peeve of mine that people always target 300 anyway. Are you trying to improve performance or are you trying to get numbers that impress your buddies at the meet? What is wrong with 250, 270, or 290? why do you feel you need to almost double the WHP on a daily driven street car?

Now as far as blown engines go my mantra is usually, as you said, that we hear of bad but not good. The thing with the FI failures is we have heard of so so many failures that I run counter to my normal thoughts and believe it is indeed an issue. I don't however believe that all the failures were by the FI per se but more with poor installation, bad tunes, cheap products and yes misdriving. The engine has proven it can take boost to a limit when all is good but it does have it's know issues that are magnified once you throw boost at it. We know there are oiling issues (yes even before the recall work) that usually don't get addressed beyond slapping a cooler on them. Heat management is very important but a lot of the things you can do to vent the bay are only good if you live in Socal or Arizona so it get's ignored. The car and engine simply are not in any way designed to be boosted and that will always be a challenge no matter what parts you throw in the block.
All in all the people warning about possible problems are right. As soon as you change any engine component you increase the RISK of something happening and this reduces the reliability. If it is your second or third car and you accept the increased risk and are not going to be stranded if it does die then knock yourself out and boost to the level you want. If you need a reliable and always available transport to trundle you back and forth to work and have the occasional fun run on the twisties or track then the less you change it the better off you will be. It all comes down to understanding and accepting the risk.

[BrahmaBull1990]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

First off there is no magic number. The "300HP"gets bantered around so much that I think people somehow believe it is somehow a cut off point. It isn't. They have blown up well under and over 300HP. It is a pet peeve of mine that people always target 300 anyway. Are you trying to improve performance or are you trying to get numbers that impress your buddies at the meet? What is wrong with 250, 270, or 290? why do you feel you need to almost double the WHP on a daily driven street car?

Now as far as blown engines go my mantra is usually, as you said, that we hear of bad but not good. The thing with the FI failures is we have heard of so so many failures that I run counter to my normal thoughts and believe it is indeed an issue. I don't however believe that all the failures were by the FI per se but more with poor installation, bad tunes, cheap products and yes misdriving. The engine has proven it can take boost to a limit when all is good but it does have it's know issues that are magnified once you throw boost at it. We know there are oiling issues (yes even before the recall work) that usually don't get addressed beyond slapping a cooler on them. Heat management is very important but a lot of the things you can do to vent the bay are only good if you live in Socal or Arizona so it get's ignored. The car and engine simply are not in any way designed to be boosted and that will always be a challenge no matter what parts you throw in the block.
All in all the people warning about possible problems are right. As soon as you change any engine component you increase the RISK of something happening and this reduces the reliability. If it is your second or third car and you accept the increased risk and are not going to be stranded if it does die then knock yourself out and boost to the level you want. If you need a reliable and always available transport to trundle you back and forth to work and have the occasional fun run on the twisties or track then the less you change it the better off you will be. It all comes down to understanding and accepting the risk.

Understood. But there is varying degrees of risk that happen in proportion to the amount of boost. Personally it feels like people here are very anti-boost outside the FI sub-forum. Any mention of FI is met with “get a new engine ready.” That said, your post at least acknowledges you can be somewhat intelligent about it. Yes the car will die sooner. The reason I mention less than 300hp is because that’s about 250whp, which isn’t full-stupid mode (for anecdotes I’ve read).

I’ve read a lot of logs on here, other forums, Reddit, and the people with the most issues push waaay more boost or track with boost.

Reading here, I had the impression if I used ANY FI my motor would explode into a million pieces within 100 miles.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990

Understood. But there is varying degrees of risk that happen in proportion to the amount of boost. Personally it feels like people here are very anti-boost outside the FI sub-forum. Any mention of FI is met with “get a new engine ready.” That said, your post at least acknowledges you can be somewhat intelligent about it. Yes the car will die sooner. The reason I mention less than 300hp is because that’s about 250whp, which isn’t full-stupid mode (for anecdotes I’ve read).

I’ve read a lot of logs on here, other forums, Reddit, and the people with the most issues push waaay more boost or track with boost.

Reading here, I had the impression if I used ANY FI my motor would explode into a million pieces within 100 miles.

It may not die sooner though. You just increased the risk of it doing so. I have spent 30 years in a career that relies heavily on risk analysis to protect people and assets s and when you look at the likelihood and consequence of these failures it is actually a more extreme risk that some think

A very simplified example would be if the probability is only moderate the results are almost catastrophic so...



At least half of the people that have said "get a new engine ready" in this thread are speaking from experience. They aren't talking out of their ass they have already been there.
This is not a great engine for boost. Any boost. It is just the way it is and people need to be aware of it to make informed decisions. If it comes off as antiboost that is unfortunate but there is a shitoad of experience behind those cautions.

[NoHaveMSG]

Originally Posted by BrahmaBull1990

Understood. But there is varying degrees of risk that happen in proportion to the amount of boost. Personally it feels like people here are very anti-boost outside the FI sub-forum. Any mention of FI is met with “get a new engine ready.” That said, your post at least acknowledges you can be somewhat intelligent about it. Yes the car will die sooner. The reason I mention less than 300hp is because that’s about 250whp, which isn’t full-stupid mode (for anecdotes I’ve read).



I’ve read a lot of logs on here, other forums, Reddit, and the people with the most issues push waaay more boost or track with boost.



Reading here, I had the impression if I used ANY FI my motor would explode into a million pieces within 100 miles.

I don't think most of the forum is anti-boost. I think it has more to do with the majority tend to enjoy the car for what it is. A large part of the forum drive lightly modded cars to begin with and the at-large community is even more stock. FI is a pretty big mod.



Personally I can't bring myself to go FI, I enjoy the "momentum" car spirit of the platform. I even had a turbo kit at one point and ended up selling it. It just isn't for me.

[BrahmaBull1990]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It may not die sooner though. You just increased the risk of it doing so. I have spent 30 years in a career that relies heavily on risk analysis to protect people and assets s and when you look at the likelihood and consequence of these failures it is actually a more extreme risk that some think

A very simplified example would be if the probability is only moderate the results are almost catastrophic so...



At least half of the people that have said "get a new engine ready" in this thread are speaking from experience. They aren't talking out of their ass they have already been there.
This is not a great engine for boost. Any boost. It is just the way it is and people need to be aware of it to make informed decisions. If it comes off as antiboost that is unfortunate but there is a shitoad of experience behind those cautions.

Thank you for this. And I would LOVE for people that have had issues to provide that information on their setup so we can all learn how to mitagate risk better (if possible). The first response was someone with a great experience and listed his support mods to provide some detail. The other post (possibly with experience; I do not know) just says “replacement engine.” That doesn’t do anything to further the conversation or collective wisdom of the group. My hope would be to get away from that.

Your post is great and I might steal that chart for some other areas in my life - like dating red headed hair dressers.

Originally Posted by NoHaveMSG

I don't think most of the forum is anti-boost. I think it has more to do with the majority tend to enjoy the car for what it is. A large part of the forum drive lightly modded cars to begin with and the at-large community is even more stock. FI is a pretty big mod.



Personally I can't bring myself to go FI, I enjoy the "momentum" car spirit of the platform. I even had a turbo kit at one point and ended up selling it. It just isn't for me.

See this is useful (meme and all)! And I agree, the spirit of the car is great and I would not want to mess that up. I have a SC on the way, so maybe I am validating myself a bit here. My personal gripe with my car is it’s so slow even on back roads with a slight hill and a stop sign. I just want a *little more (already have header and tune). But hey, I could have bought a V6 or something but I wanted this one. Maybe I am a parent upset my kid isn’t a doctor haha

[Grady]

The car is already ready for boost. You do not need a spare engine but you do need the finances to cover mistakes and unforeseen issues. You also should have an alternate method of transportation. This will give you time if you run into problems to fix correctly and not worry about getting it done. The engines that blow due to boost are mostly going to be due to shitty install, shitty tune, Abuse. Or any combination of the above.

In my opinion ITB’s are cool, but a complete waste on a turbo FA20.