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Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting What these cars were built for!


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Old 06-06-2016, 03:24 PM   #3963
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I've never had rotors turned, but I would think the same places that turn one piece rotors.
That said, there may be something else going on you want to figure out before doing that.
It's not usually an issue of 1pc or 2pc, it's if the rotors are cross-drilled or slotted. Most places won't resurface those.

@Zion With all the extremes they've seen to get to this point over 2 years, from a simple safety standpoint you might want to consider a new set of rings. If you're nowhere near the wear limit on the rotors it might be a good indicator that you could safely go to a more aggressive pad compound as well.
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:24 PM   #3964
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Try leaving the spare and accompanying junk in the trunk. Cheaper than a wing and gives "downforce" on the rear. Also, I haven't done it, but the pedal dance might help because it will turn off the e-differential. In the end, the light rear end is a blessing because, on every single sweeper, we get to play with steering by throttle. You can also stay in a gear higher than optimal. This will limit your torque and make throttle control easier. An upgraded LSD should help, too. I think a wing is a later mod, not an earlier one.

Try going into a corner too fast. You'll understeer, at least at first.
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Hmm havent though about adding weight and seeing what the differences are, I will try it out next time just to get an idea at least.

For the pedal dance, I have been doing it, I dont think the electronics would allow for so much slip angle even in "off" mode.


I wouldn't recommend leaving the spare + junk in the trunk. That won't help and could make things worse. Back in the day Gary Sheehan in USTCC with his WRX put all of their series required ballast in the trunk initially with the thinking of making the car less front heavy biased. The result was excessive oversteer city. Eventually they moved it to the center of the car for a lower polar moment of inertia. Much more stable.

A little rear toe in would be where I'd start, maybe a little more rear camber as well. Sticky-ish tires on soft stock suspension wants a lot of camber.

- andrew
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Old 06-06-2016, 03:57 PM   #3965
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I wouldn't recommend leaving the spare + junk in the trunk. That won't help and could make things worse. Back in the day Gary Sheehan in USTCC with his WRX put all of their series required ballast in the trunk initially with the thinking of making the car less front heavy biased. The result was excessive oversteer city. Eventually they moved it to the center of the car for a lower polar moment of inertia. Much more stable.

A little rear toe in would be where I'd start, maybe a little more rear camber as well. Sticky-ish tires on soft stock suspension wants a lot of camber.

- andrew
Thanks andrew, btw do you guys have a FR-S in the Super Production Challenge? There is an asphalt FR-S, I think vortech supercharged with Racecomp Engineering stickers on the sides (really big ones, you couldnt miss it). It made me think of you guys here in the forum right away.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:23 PM   #3966
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Thanks andrew, btw do you guys have a FR-S in the Super Production Challenge? There is an asphalt FR-S, I think vortech supercharged with Racecomp Engineering stickers on the sides (really big ones, you couldnt miss it). It made me think of you guys here in the forum right away.
That's @puma for BP3D Competition. We are one of their sponsors and they are running our RCE Tarmac coilovers. They've got a good team and won the 2015 championship.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96120



- Andrew
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:37 PM   #3967
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@CounterSpace Garage , agree I need new rings? PM me so we can set it up
Thickness wise, your rings are fine. If they're tapered, turn them, if someone local will do it. No need to waste money.

You are getting a lot of heat checking, which means you're using em right! It doesn't hurt to have a spare set. If you really want to be on fresh rotors, keep these as a backup; they're perfectly useable, although not ideal.
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Old 06-06-2016, 04:39 PM   #3968
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Aero questions. Im going to get a wing for my car, the rear is really loose, its fast but its scary driving specially on long sweepers. I dont want to turn the oversteer into understeer and my suspension isnt adjustable (its stock actually). Should I worry about a front splitter or air dam at first or should I just try the wing by itself? Im affraid the wing might lift the front without any aero that transform all of that happy tail oversteer into understeer.

Also, im not only doing it because I find it scary, im really chicken anyways so that probably wont change but I think I can find more time if I can have some more late apexes with early gas applications. I find myself having to give up on some late apexes because the rear will slide out at turn in, I can probably trail brake some more too, currently lifting off brakes completely halfway between turn in and apex, I could probably trail brake all the way to the apex with a wing, allowing me to brake later.

Edit: alignement is -3 camber up front, -2 camber rear, 0 toe all around.

Edit 2: more info, 28k miles on stock dampers with around 15 track days (2-3 hours of track time per day). Surface is tarmac not asphalt so it is smooth, but no rubbery smooth. Tires are 225/45/17 Maxxis RC1. So far I have tried 38, 35 and 32 hot pressures on them. 32 produced the fastest times and better turn in.
I would put money that your stock dampers are worn out. Buy a fresh set off the forums; many members dump them for cheap when they get coilovers, with very little wear on them.

An LSD will make the rear end more predictable and progressive, and may be a better modification than a wing, especially if you want to avoid understeer.

CSG has several options available for both wings and LSDs.

I see experienced drivers consistently wear out stock dampers in 3-5 track days.
@dp1 @Pat great ideas, but I believe both of you have experienced a degree of wear and tear
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:10 AM   #3969
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Hi Guys,

I have a relatively standard 86, only changed to Pilot Sports and a couple of small things. Doing camber bolts when I'm home again in a couple of weeks.

My question specifically pertains to wheel alignment on the stock suspension with its limited adjustments. With camber bolts in the front (-1.3deg) and standard rear setup (assuming 0deg) the only other material parameter left is the toe settings fore & aft.

I would like to understand the difference between front and rear toe out (a) under braking, (b) turn in, (c) steady state cornering & (d) corner exit/power out.


If you are also on standard suspension feel free to post your alignment!


Thanks!
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:27 AM   #3970
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This may or may not be what you're looking for, but I hope it helps.
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:42 AM   #3971
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This may or may not be what you're looking for, but I hope it helps.
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Thanks! Would also like to understand how toe-out front vs rear affects handling during different cornering phases,
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Old 06-07-2016, 12:31 PM   #3972
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Originally Posted by jarnojvv View Post
Hi Guys,

I have a relatively standard 86, only changed to Pilot Sports and a couple of small things. Doing camber bolts when I'm home again in a couple of weeks.


I would like to understand the difference between front and rear toe out (a) under braking, (b) turn in, (c) steady state cornering & (d) corner exit/power out.


If you are also on standard suspension feel free to post your alignment!


Thanks!
I don't have bump steer numbers for the car yet, so I'll have to answer in general terms. Bump steer on a road racing car is extremely important, and often overlooked. A good shop will spend several hours on one car getting less than 0.01" per 1" of suspension movement. Bump steer behavior can significantly affect the following tendencies if it's too much.

Front toe out is going to most significantly affect turn-in. The car will feel much more responsive since the inboard tire will develop higher slip angles sooner and "pull" the car into the corner, if that makes sense.

Rear toe out is going to be a bad thing, generally speaking. It will make the car very darty and unstable. It'll want to come around under hard braking, especially trail braking. It'll seem squirmy under hard acceleration. We usually aim for 0 to 1/16" total toe in for the rear.

Keep in mind you can't change anything in a suspension setup without affecting other things to some degree, but those are the most significant effects.

Jake
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Old 06-07-2016, 05:40 PM   #3973
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Hi Guys,

I have a relatively standard 86, only changed to Pilot Sports and a couple of small things. Doing camber bolts when I'm home again in a couple of weeks.

My question specifically pertains to wheel alignment on the stock suspension with its limited adjustments. With camber bolts in the front (-1.3deg) and standard rear setup (assuming 0deg) the only other material parameter left is the toe settings fore & aft.

I would like to understand the difference between front and rear toe out (a) under braking, (b) turn in, (c) steady state cornering & (d) corner exit/power out.


If you are also on standard suspension feel free to post your alignment!


Thanks!
Toe-out front will help turn-in response, at the cost of steady state cornering grip. Toe-in front will stabilize the front end, at the cost of steady state cornering.

Toe-in rear will stabilize the rear, while toe-out will make the rear want to wander/rotate.

Everything has a reasonable amount to be used, as well as a time and place. More is not better, in any scenario.
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Old 06-08-2016, 07:50 AM   #3974
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Guys with extended studs and open lugs. Do you still use factory 90 ft lbs or what?
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:30 AM   #3975
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Guys with extended studs and open lugs. Do you still use factory 90 ft lbs or what?
If they're steel lugs, yes. If they're aluminum lugs, we throw them out and buy steel lugs, then torque to 90-95 ft lbs.
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:42 AM   #3976
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Guys with extended studs and open lugs. Do you still use factory 90 ft lbs or what?

CSG chromoly steel lugs (http://counterspacegarage.com/csg-ra...s-m12x125.html), torqued to 90lb
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