2013 Subaru BRZ and 2013 Scion FR-S: A Study in Comparison and Contrast

[AVOturboworld]

Understeer means it's lawsuit-proof. If you go into a tree nose first, the driver was going too fast. If you go into a tree ass first, the automotive maker released it with a defective, dangerous suspension design, either on purpose or through negligence.

And yes, I'm serious about the last bit. I sat down with Subaru of Japan many, many times in the past, and that bit is what is always foremost on their minds. Toyota's a little braver, or has better lawyers, or just hasn't had to deal with the last 10 years of kids buying turbo WRX's and crashing them into houses "when the turbo spooled at 12mph".

In regards to the journalists can't drive - yes, there's a few that can't. But any that are driving pre-production, high-profile releases like these two cars *can* drive. Both the manufacturers and the magazines will make sure of it. The actual issue is that, because they are fairly professional about it, they will be driving it in all sort of ways that the average reader won't. Driving at the limit means different things for different people.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub

[Zaku]

^ that makes a hell lots of sense, thank you.

[dsgerbc]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Understeer means it's lawsuit-proof.

Lawsuit-proof in America? Hell no! Probability of lawsuit is lower, of course. Just wait until people start pumping front tires to higher pressures and let air out of rears to get some more 'neutral' handling. And it's not gonna be verifiable on a crashed car. Some relatives of those - might sue

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Lawsuit-proof in America? Hell no! Probability of lawsuit is lower, of course. Just wait until people start pumping front tires to higher pressures and let air out of rears to get some more 'neutral' handling. And it's not gonna be verifiable on a crashed car. Some relatives of those - might sue

In america anyone can sue anybody for anything. True.

But it is common practice for automotive manufactures to make cars driving characteristics more "stable" which results in understeer to avert these lawsuits.

Basically Paul is telling the truth about lawsuit-proof because it truly is trying to fight a loosing battle. And auto makers know how to cover their asses for the most part. This kind of idea of the auto maker protecting itself from idiots is normal.

[DMDZK]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

In america anyone can sue anybody for anything. True.

But it is common practice for automotive manufactures to make cars driving characteristics more "stable" which results in understeer to avert these lawsuits.

Basically Paul is telling the truth about lawsuit-proof because it truly is trying to fight a loosing battle. And auto makers know how to cover their asses for the most part. This kind of idea of the auto maker protecting itself from idiots is normal.

Not only is it common, but it is absolutely necessary. Look at the Toyota "unintended acceleration" fiasco. They had a ton of lawsuits, many of which were frivolous, regarding the cars accelerating on their own. Now they have redesigned the floor mats and for a time, refused to install them for the customer, since it was a liability concern. To my knowledge, despite a government investigation, no hardware/software issue has ever been found in any of the reported cases.

[Jah1mon]

Originally Posted by Zgrinch

My favorite comment:

Above 5000 rpm, it’s loud enough that you have to scream to converse

I like the SOUND of that.

That's just the sound tube pumping unnesscary noise from the intake.

[Re_Invention]

Originally Posted by AVOturboworld

Understeer means it's lawsuit-proof. If you go into a tree nose first, the driver was going too fast. If you go into a tree ass first, the automotive maker released it with a defective, dangerous suspension design, either on purpose or through negligence.

And yes, I'm serious about the last bit. I sat down with Subaru of Japan many, many times in the past, and that bit is what is always foremost on their minds. Toyota's a little braver, or has better lawyers, or just hasn't had to deal with the last 10 years of kids buying turbo WRX's and crashing them into houses "when the turbo spooled at 12mph".

In regards to the journalists can't drive - yes, there's a few that can't. But any that are driving pre-production, high-profile releases like these two cars *can* drive. Both the manufacturers and the magazines will make sure of it. The actual issue is that, because they are fairly professional about it, they will be driving it in all sort of ways that the average reader won't. Driving at the limit means different things for different people.

Regards,

Paul Hansen
www.avoturboworld.com
www.facebook.com/BRZSportsCarClub

I'm sure they [Toyota] haven't forgotten about the unintended acceleration fiasco of recent years. They also have experience with 'too much performance' with the second generation MR2 turbo. In 92'/93' they had to revise the suspension geometry and changed tires to prevent snap oversteer.

I predict, like the AP1 and Mr2, within a few years of the model release, we'll see it dialed down. With enthusiasts buying the first wave (2-3 years) of cars, however, then Toyota/Scion will make it more pedestrian and focus on selling in volume.

[jer305]

Did everyone completely forget that there is a sport mode switch and to have fun with the car you need to hit it..... I don't think with normal driving you will have to worry about the car being twitchy.


edit: good call SUB-FT86, i didn't see your post.

[mike2100]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

$26k is what is what I've expected this car to be at base price. And even more so after reading that. The Genesis Coupe 2.0T is coming in at $25k, and I predicted that the FR-S would be in between the 2.0T and 3.8.

How about $22,250 + delivery so $23,125

$22,205 for a Civic Si Coupe
$23,450 for a base Miata

If the FR-S base price, before delivery, is above 24k I will eat my hair.

[Zaku]

Originally Posted by jer305

Did everyone completely forget that there is a sport mode switch and to have fun with the car you need to hit it..... I don't think with normal driving you will have to worry about the car being twitchy.


edit: good call SUB-FT86, i didn't see your post.

I thought that as Automatic only... or was that Snow...


And Mike... your prolly gonna have alot of hair to eat.

[Dave-ROR]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I thought that as Automatic only... or was that Snow...


And Mike... your prolly gonna have alot of hair to eat.

Snow.

VSC sport is on all of them.

[Zgrinch]

Originally Posted by Jah1mon

That's just the sound tube pumping unnesscary noise from the intake.

I understand that and I like Mr. Sound Tube.

[jer305]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I thought that as Automatic only... or was that Snow...

In the video with Chris Harris there is a point where he turns it off to start drifting.... It could be snow that is for autos ?

[Homemade WRX]

Originally Posted by dsgerbc

Just wait until people start pumping rear tires to higher pressures and let air out of fronts to get some more 'neutral' handling. And it's not gonna be verifiable on a crashed car. Some relatives of those - might sue

Fixed