Toyota and Subaru Officially Confirm Second Gen 86! (September 27, 2019)

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by toijin

I don't post here often. Was looking for pix!

Take these pictures with a grain of salt from a motoring website. Could it be similar to the next gen?

https://www.motoring.com.au/new-toyo...firmed-120861/

https://www.motoring.com.au/toyota-t...rts-car-109317

Well that was the hybrid concept but the body style could be close. Like all concept to production cars it would be toned down from that though. Those headlights and that rear would be a bit costly for a sub $35K production car.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Quentin

That is using the current body essentially. It won’t look like that.


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And thank God. That concept is ugly AF, IMO

[Pedro13]

Originally Posted by Spuds

And thank God. That concept is ugly AF, IMO

Agreed 100%!

[Dadhawk]

I hope it continues to be a great looking "classic" form car with just enough of a power/torque increase to make it interesting. Throwing in a targa wouldn't hurt!

It would have to be something spectacularly special for me to buy a MK2 though, particularly given my auto buying history shows I a don't buy the same car twice.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Throwing in a targa wouldn't hurt!

Yes it would...

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I hope it continues to be a great looking "classic" form car with just enough of a power/torque increase to make it interesting. Throwing in a targa wouldn't hurt!

It would have to be something spectacularly special for me to buy a MK2 though, particularly given my auto buying history shows I a don't buy the same car twice.

I bought the same car three times and watched them get progressively worse each gen. I am not as optimistic as many here I am afraid.
Many of what people are asking for will make it heavier and unless they offset that weight gain with a proportional power increase then it will not be an improvement but just maintain the status quo. It would also be very, very unlikely that they can meet even a fraction of this wish list and keep the price in it's current range. The same people screaming for the biggest changes would just walk away when the price tag hits $45K+.
My biggest fear is that they will do what happened to the Eclipse, Celica, Z cars, etc where they turned their focus from the "enthusiast" (I hate using that word but it fits) to selling more of them to the general public. The general public doesn't have the same priorities that most here do and the model can be ruined in a hurry if they try to meet the majority's wishs.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Yes it would...

Not if they engineer it in rather than doing it as an after thought.

[Spuds]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I hope it continues to be a great looking "classic" form car with just enough of a power/torque increase to make it interesting. Throwing in a targa wouldn't hurt!

It would have to be something spectacularly special for me to buy a MK2 though, particularly given my auto buying history shows I a don't buy the same car twice.

There is definitely a sweet spot where I will buy a mk2. It needs to be different enough to consider it a significant upgrade, yet similar enough to give me the same driving and wrenching enjoyment. And I think that is a VERY small sweet spot though, IDK exactly where it is. Guessing at some benchmark: If they can manage to shave 100-200lb, make a bit more (10-20ftlb?) NA torque while keeping the redline up. Or increase the redline and change gearing? Chassis-wise, well, idk, Ill know when I drive it lol.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Not if they engineer it in rather than doing it as an after thought.

Of course they'd "engineer it". But there is no getting around the fact that a fixed shear panel is by far the most efficient way to get the required chassis stiffness. Remove this and you have to add *a lot* more structure (mass) to get the same stiffness. Analogy: take a shoebox with the lid securely in place. Quite stiff. Remove the lid and try to get back the same stiffness by adding thickness to the bottom and sides of the box. You'll have to add a whole lot more weight in cardboard to get even close...

[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I bought the same car three times and watched them get progressively worse each gen. I am not as optimistic as many here I am afraid.
Many of what people are asking for will make it heavier and unless they offset that weight gain with a proportional power increase then it will not be an improvement but just maintain the status quo. It would also be very, very unlikely that they can meet even a fraction of this wish list and keep the price in it's current range. The same people screaming for the biggest changes would just walk away when the price tag hits $45K+.
My biggest fear is that they will do what happened to the Eclipse, Celica, Z cars, etc where they turned their focus from the "enthusiast" (I hate using that word but it fits) to selling more of them to the general public. The general public doesn't have the same priorities that most here do and the model can be ruined in a hurry if they try to meet the majority's wishs.

I do kind of expect it to be marketed to a slightly more general public. Toyota investors are going to want their returns.

The only things I think the car really needs are the elimination of the torque dip (why was there one in the first place? Seems to be really easy to mod out if you're not bound by your racing build), Door checks that actually hold (as mentioned many times) and better sound quality. I think those are all achievable without investing too much money or adding too much weight (not talking about a huge sound improvement).

I think they're probably going to increase the weight (probably more sound deadening if nothing else, maybe as much as 3050 lbs [1400 kg]). They'll probably bump the power by 15-20 hp because that's generally what people expect from any generation change; but it will still be the FA20. Do we know what year it will be? I'm guessing 2022.

Doesn't matter for me though. I don't tend to buy new cars as I just don't have the budget for it.

[CrowsFeast]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Of course they'd "engineer it". But there is no getting around the fact that a fixed shear panel is by far the most efficient way to get the required chassis stiffness. Remove this and you have to add *a lot* more structure (mass) to get the same stiffness. Analogy: take a shoebox with the lid securely in place. Quite stiff. Remove the lid and try to get back the same stiffness by adding thickness to the bottom and sides of the box. You'll have to add a whole lot more weight in cardboard to get even close...

Don't forget that the doors don't really give much rigidity either since, you know, they open.

Top Gear portrays it as 2 bricks joined by 2 playing cards. 1 at the top and 1 at the bottom. Take the top away and see how flimsy it is.

Of course there's some ridge along the bottom of the door (check out a lotus to see how big theirs is) for added rigidity so really it's somewhere between the 2 analogies.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by CrowsFeast

I do kind of expect it to be marketed to a slightly more general public. Toyota investors are going to want their returns.

The only things I think the car really needs are the elimination of the torque dip (why was there one in the first place? Seems to be really easy to mod out if you're not bound by your racing build), Door checks that actually hold (as mentioned many times) and better sound quality. I think those are all achievable without investing too much money or adding too much weight (not talking about a huge sound improvement).

I think they're probably going to increase the weight (probably more sound deadening if nothing else, maybe as much as 3050 lbs [1400 kg]). They'll probably bump the power by 15-20 hp because that's generally what people expect from any generation change; but it will still be the FA20. Do we know what year it will be? I'm guessing 2022.

Doesn't matter for me though. I don't tend to buy new cars as I just don't have the budget for it.

The dip is a by product of needing to meet emission standards. Yes it is very easy to tune out if you do not need to meet those requirements but the engineers don't have the luxury of ignoring them that modders do. Personally I think the dip is much ado about nothing anyway since it has no real impact on the street drivability. Don't know that they can squeeze another 10 or 20 out of the FA (back to those mileage and emissions requirements) but maybe they have a rabbit up their sleeve someplace.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Of course they'd "engineer it". But there is no getting around the fact that a fixed shear panel is by far the most efficient way to get the required chassis stiffness. Remove this and you have to add *a lot* more structure (mass) to get the same stiffness. Analogy: take a shoebox with the lid securely in place. Quite stiff. Remove the lid and try to get back the same stiffness by adding thickness to the bottom and sides of the box. You'll have to add a whole lot more weight in cardboard to get even close...

Anybody that read the development history and didn't just dismiss it as marketing because they don't agree with what it says will see that this is exactly why they didn't do a hatch in the first place.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by ZDan

Of course they'd "engineer it". But there is no getting around the fact that a fixed shear panel is by far the most efficient way to get the required chassis stiffness. ...

I'm fully aware of the tradeoffs, but it can be done. The C8 is an example of this with its larger tunnel to compensate. Of course, it's easier when there is no driveshaft in the tunnel to deal with.

I've also owned a car with a Targa that wasn't designed for it (1983 Camaro Z28 with an aftermarket targa top) so I've seen the "not quite designed right but man was it cool" side of it.