This is how camber affects toe in front. Also RCE camber plate info.

[Pat]

I have a 2014 BRZ on stock suspension. It has RCE street camber plates and crash bolts. I just had an alignment done and set camber to -3.2* on both sides in front. There was no toe when at this setting. Then I adjusted the camber plates outwards to create less camber. This was then measured at -.9*. The toe was then measured at -.2* total.
So generally speaking, on a BRZ or FRS with OEM suspension, adjusting the camber one degree changes toe by about one tenth of a degree.
Also, for those with RCE street camber plates, know that they have seven marks/settings available and these measurements were taken at the settings that generated the second most possible camber and second least possible camber. I.E., of the seven settings, these measurements were taken at settings number two and six. Therefore, each setting of these camber plates is worth (3.2 -.9) / 5 = .46* of camber.

[strat61caster]

For those of us with a less tenuous grasp on what +/- means for toe, can you confirm that by -.2 degrees you mean toe-out?

So the car toes in when adding camber, toes out when reducing camber correct?
Nice to see how relatively small the number is, for reference some shops would call that roughly (actually less than) 1/16" toe out on each wheel so a total of 1/8" (3mm) toe out with that camber change.

[Pat]

Hmmm....good question, strat61caster. The report from the Hunter machine said -.2*. I thought that was toe in, but can't say for sure. Hopefully someone more familiar with those machines can chime in here.
I think the car toes in when adding camber and out when reducing camber.

[GTHachiRoku]

Positive is toe in and negative is toe out.

[Pat]

Generally speaking, toe out is better for the track (steering response) and toe in is better for the street (stability).
And it seem to me since my toe went out .2* when loosing 2.3* of camber, which is the opposite of what I would want. Does this make sense to you guys?

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by Pat

Generally speaking, toe out is better for the track (steering response) and toe in is better for the street (stability).
And it seem to me since my toe went out .2* when loosing 2.3* of camber, which is the opposite of what I would want. Does this make sense to you guys?

I always thought toe out in front for response and toe in in the rear for stability under braking?

[Pat]

I just don't know enough about this. Hopefully smrtr than I am will chime in here.

[fumanchu1]

well I'm officially more confused then when I came in here ... Thanks guys lol


FYI there is a camber/toe thread somewhere that explains this, I'll look but PM me if you find it as I need it to figure wth I'm doing with my alignment in the near future(so far I've gathered negative total camber around -1 or -2, for my application) what that entails for the rest of the settings is beyond me at this point

[churchx]

It's not that black & white clear, like if one is made for track, other one - for street.
Simply toe is one of most affecting tire wear alignment settings, hence rarely "for street" default factory stock alignment deviates much from zero toe.
Toe in's extra self-stabilizing can be very handy both on street and track, especially on end with driving wheels, allowing opening accelerator after turn faster with driving end less prone to loose traction..
And that touted steering response from toe-out .. it can also result in something that twitchy to handle that may kill confidence in driver and make him push less, or even rather dangerous at high speeds. IIRC toe-out on our cars may make sense only if your slice of bread is not HPDE/track driving, but drifting only, and you want to keep using stock NA (under)powered engine, that may benefit from some help for intentionally loosing traction in power oversteering. Otherwise imho both on street and on track better leave front zero toe, and rear - slight toe in (if not going overboard, it won't grow tire wear too much). It will be safer and will let average driver push more. Be it on track, or .. yeah, on street aswell.

[Insanerb25]

^^^ what he said

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[qwerty66]

more negative camber = more toe in

more positive camber = more toe out

(without changing alignment)

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by churchx

IIRC toe-out on our cars may make sense only if your slice of bread is not HPDE/track driving, but drifting only, and you want to keep using stock NA (under)powered engine, that may benefit from some help for intentionally loosing traction in power oversteering. Otherwise imho both on street and on track better leave front zero toe, and rear - slight toe in (if not going overboard, it won't grow tire wear too much). It will be safer and will let average driver push more. Be it on track, or .. yeah, on street aswell.

Auto X guys also love front toe out with a pinch of rear toe in. Gives better turn in, but with some added stability in the back.

It also really depends on the natural balance of the car, I know a couple guys with WRX's/STI's that run front toe out on track cars to get the cars to turn, wouldn't surprise me to see FWD guys doing it too.

[Hyper4mance2k]

Toe-out in the front also helps with Ackerman angle. You want about as much Ackerman as you can get for maintaining an arc after turn-in. Not a lot of cars are designed with Ackerman in mind, most will have the opposite. Running zero toe with a sticky tire, you will gain toe-out under breaking due to bushing compliance. This will give you great initial turn-in, but without the wear issues and dartyness that static toe out can cause. Also, static toe out can make the car too darty if you daily. It will follow ruts in the road, sometimes violently. I daily my car, so I don't want to fight with it every time I drive down the freeway.
As far as the rear goes, toe out helps the car turn, but it makes it very very darty, toe-in gives stability. Same daily driving issues.

I usually set up my RWD cars with 0 toe in the front and 1/16" toe-in in the rear.
I've had success autoXing FWDs set-up with a lot of roll compliance (no front bar & stock rear bar) and 1/16" of toe-out in the front and rear.

(p.s. gross simplifications above, but gives you the gist of my experience with just toe)

[sergiomordo]

Originally Posted by Pat

I have a 2014 BRZ on stock suspension. It has RCE street camber plates and crash bolts. I just had an alignment done and set camber to -3.2* on both sides in front. There was no toe when at this setting. Then I adjusted the camber plates outwards to create less camber. This was then measured at -.9*. The toe was then measured at -.2* total.
So generally speaking, on a BRZ or FRS with OEM suspension, adjusting the camber one degree changes toe by about one tenth of a degree.
Also, for those with RCE street camber plates, know that they have seven marks/settings available and these measurements were taken at the settings that generated the second most possible camber and second least possible camber. I.E., of the seven settings, these measurements were taken at settings number two and six. Therefore, each setting of these camber plates is worth (3.2 -.9) / 5 = .46* of camber.

Did the rce camber plates change your ride height at all?

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