Official Formula 1 thread

[Superhatch]

Nascar can do fueling because they don't have open exhausts and super hot exposed engine parts right next to their refueling spouts so I don't think that's a fair comparison. I think that saying Indy can do it is a better comparison.

I also think that the refueling rigs that were needed to be safe cost a LOT of money to transport all around the world and that cost was a large part of getting rid of refueling probably more so than safety. The goal was to make F1 more affordable so smaller teams could run and that was a big reduction in cost.

[Lischynski]

Certainly a fair point, Hatch. Just having some fun.

At the end of the day, we just enjoy a different goal of racing. All I'm concerned about is some exciting, hard racing. I couldn't care less about efficiency, being green, or resembling what's on the roads.

Unless we're talking about NASCAR. Those things have way too much downforce, and aren't even close to their supposed definition ("stock" cars).

[Superhatch]

Originally Posted by Lischynski

At the end of the day, this is a motorsport.

I'm with you on this and I think that part of the economy is again to allow more manufacturers to compete in the series. High revving V10's with separate race and quali engines, unlimited tires, giant super safe high pressure refueling rigs, unlimited engine and transmissions, unlimited wind tunnel testing etc. meant tons and tons of money. Hundreds of millions of dollars a season to be involved in the sport at a winning level.

While I enjoyed that level of money and racing eventually it was boring to just watch 2-3 manufacturers always be at the top of the series. While I don't want a procession series like Indy or Nascar (which in my opinion F1 was slowly becoming) I also don't want a totally unlimited series where one or two teams can compete and everyone else is a backmarker. I want competition. I want a car that needs a competent, skilled driver to master. I want innovation and new technology which is revolutionary to the automotive world.

Right now F1 is ticking all those boxes for me and it wasn't before. It's more motorsport now than it has been in the last decade IMO. Is it quieter...sure. Should that matter? I don't think so.

[Superhatch]

Side note. I'm having a lot of fun with this debate.

[f0rge]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

Nascar can do fueling because they don't have open exhausts and super hot exposed engine parts right next to their refueling spouts so I don't think that's a fair comparison. I think that saying Indy can do it is a better comparison.

That's a good point, and Indy has quite a few fires.

[Lischynski]

I really don't mind the engines, I like the sound of the turbos, in fact. It's nice to also hear the tires squeal, and the crowd as well. I don't agree with limiting the engines to 5 for the first season with all of these new changes though. Should have given them a trial year with 8.

[f0rge]

I missed the race but caught the qualifying live, didn't really seem all that different to me, same couple of teams up front, same group of drivers up front.

The engines didn't wail like they used to, but the sound was still pretty cool. The main difference I noticed was all the extra oversteer from the torquier engines.

[cfusionpm]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

I'm with you on this and I think that part of the economy is again to allow more manufacturers to compete in the series. High revving V10's with separate race and quali engines, unlimited tires, giant super safe high pressure refueling rigs, unlimited engine and transmissions, unlimited wind tunnel testing etc. meant tons and tons of money. Hundreds of millions of dollars a season to be involved in the sport at a winning level.

While I enjoyed that level of money and racing eventually it was boring to just watch 2-3 manufacturers always be at the top of the series. While I don't want a procession series like Indy or Nascar (which in my opinion F1 was slowly becoming) I also don't want a totally unlimited series where one or two teams can compete and everyone else is a backmarker. I want competition. I want a car that needs a competent, skilled driver to master. I want innovation and new technology which is revolutionary to the automotive world.

Right now F1 is ticking all those boxes for me and it wasn't before. It's more motorsport now than it has been in the last decade IMO. Is it quieter...sure. Should that matter? I don't think so.

American Football has a great model for creating equality, or rather equal opportunity. Aside from a few prize payouts, much of the NFL income is divided relatively evenly among all 32 teams. This leads to a lot of shake ups every couple years (sometimes every year) because people pick and choose what to spend money and focus on.

F1 could benefit from this type of system giving equal budgets to everyone, but creative freedom on how to use it. That way, backmarker and midfield teams have a chance to do just as well as teams who currently spend triple digit millions every season. Just a thought.... If nothing changes, Mercedes will just be the next Red Bull, and everyone else is left fighting for table scraps.

[f0rge]

^^^ That's an interesting idea, at least in theory.

Would be very interesting to see an unlimited race series with only a salary cap.

[torqdork]

Edit:

Originally Posted by Superhatch

Kers (see Mclaren P1)
--I have, at cars shows. Not everyone can afford 7-figure toys

DLC (diamond like coating)
--NASCAR, too

VVT (Honda developed VTEC in F1)
--1980's motorcycles

DSG Transmissions
--Becoming obsolete as full automatics improve (see Lexus LFA, 2015 Corvette Z06)

Tire Tech (not from auto mfgs, but another example)
--First radial patented in 1915

Disc Brakes (F1 tech from the 50's)
--Actually 1902 Lanchester, from the land of McLaren

Carbon fiber tech
--Deep pockets and difficult to repair compared to aluminum

DOHC motors (Also older F1 tech)
--1912 Pugeot

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by Superhatch

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/t...e-environment/

If you think F1 hasn't had nearly direct translations to the cars on the road today I think you've missed part of what happens in this series.

Maybe you missed the money quote from your link:

"The trickle down of useful technology has, however, been incidental to the aims of the sport."

And that's the rub to many F1 enthusiasts who follow the sport for, as I posted earlier, escape, not conformity to a politically correct green ideology at odds with the people paying the bills.

The marketplace will ultimately decide whether 2014 specs survive. It'll be interesting to see paid attendance compared to last year and which sponsors and venues renew contracts.

[GTB/ZR-1]

Vacuum cleaners, I say!!!

http://www.autoweek.com/article/20140317/F1/140319821

[cfusionpm]

Love it or hate it, this about sums it up:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS4Dh_EAfJI"]F1 2013 vs 2014 sound comparison - Melbourne - YouTube[/ame]

[torqdork]

Originally Posted by cfusionpm

F1 could benefit from this type of system giving equal budgets to everyone, but creative freedom on how to use it. That way, backmarker and midfield teams have a chance to do just as well as teams who currently spend triple digit millions every season. Just a thought.... If nothing changes, Mercedes will just be the next Red Bull, and everyone else is left fighting for table scraps.

You would think so, but Toyota proved that cubic money doesn't equal success. They outspent all other teams by far and never won a race.

But I agree, the pot needs to be split more equitably.

Great video/audio comparison! Probably some good deals on ear protection available on Craigslist.