Car and Driver is F-ing Stupid

[ichitaka05]

I think, I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Not everyone understand this car and gonna love this car for it's concept. FT86 Project CE Tada-san knew there will be (a lot of) people hating on this car when he planned this car. He knew there will be only handful of owners will truly understand and this car, but he pushed all the Nay-sayers and build it. I wouldn't say we're the "elite" or "chosen" or anything, but I would say, we're "lucky" owners who enjoy this car for what it is... or some of you might of modded to make it to your liking to put smile on our faces. Sadly, this poor writer wasn't that lucky to understand it. Don't need to be harsh to him for that. Don't need to do witch-hunt. Maybe give him a hug, if you see him. Maybe he needs to be told that he's loved. Maybe he need someone to buy him a drink or go grab a bite with him.

TLDR; let this poor poor poor car journalist some slack for not having open mind on the twins.

[ZetaVI]

Everyone who understands this car was made for those who deliver tofu on mountain roads. Those who don't understand are just jealous because they don't have the skill of preventing water spilling from their cup. They use cup lids! Losers.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

If my car made that much torque I wouldn't be complaining.

The reason why people complain about a torque dip is because as you accelerate, you can feel a momentary lag in acceleration, almost like you took the foot off the gas pedal.

The more power the car has, the more pronounced it is.

The dip exists for a number of reasons, many of which is because of consumer habits and emissions regulations.

-alex

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

Maybe give him a huge, if you see him.

.... a huge what?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Zaku

hmm pretty sure he was told to write up something "bad" about the car by C&D

at his old job at Edmunds.

He loved the BRZ

http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/brz/2013/road-test1.html

To Quote him:



calls it refreshing, and loved it. sounds like a huge change of tone.

.

Originally Posted by ichitaka05

I think, I've said this before, but I'll say it again. Not everyone understand this car and gonna love this car for it's concept. FT86 Project CE Tada-san knew there will be (a lot of) people hating on this car when he planned this car. He knew there will be only handful of owners will truly understand and this car, but he pushed all the Nay-sayers and build it. I wouldn't say we're the "elite" or "chosen" or anything, but I would say, we're "lucky" owners who enjoy this car for what it is... or some of you might of modded to make it to your liking to put smile on our faces. Sadly, this poor writer wasn't that lucky to understand it. Don't need to be harsh to him for that. Don't need to do witch-hunt. Maybe give him a huge, if you see him. Maybe he needs to be told that he's loved. Maybe he need someone to buy him a drink or go grab a bite with him.

TLDR; let this poor poor poor car journalist some slack for not having open mind on the twins.

I would have read it said "Meh" and moved on until Zak posted the link to what he used to have to say about it. It is a 180 change and makes no sense to go on a rant because it didn't get 100 more HP. As I said before I could accept it if it was labeled an editorial but it wasn't, it is supposed be a review and there is very little review and a pile of second guessing the engineering.

Oh, and I bet there a few around here that would like to give him a "huge" right about now.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mav1178

The reason why people complain about a torque dip is because as you accelerate, you can feel a momentary lag in acceleration, almost like you took the foot off the gas pedal.

The more power the car has, the more pronounced it is.

The dip exists for a number of reasons, many of which is because of consumer habits and emissions regulations.

-alex

Yep that tenth of a second pause while plowing past the 500 rpm range of the dip really ruins the experience.

[Toroll]

Originally Posted by prj3ctm4yh3m

"light, cheap, fast: pick two"

My N/A 2zz Spyder is lighter (2200 lbs), cheaper (~$8k to build), faster (183whp), revs at 8300 rpm, it sounds so awesome, it handles like a go kart... and wait.. it also gets 35+mpg. Sorry, I didn't just pick two.


Back to topic. Our Twins does really need more oooooommmmphh to be honest. Let's not be angry and get but hurt and overreact for some articles like this.. If you open your mind or think about it, this article is for us (unless you are the type of guy who doesn't want a better version of the Twin). This article should help us deliver the message to Toyota/Subaru so they give us more options. If Toyota/Subaru sells a force fed version of the twin, o heck I would trade mine in an instant.

Let's be honest here, our car is slow for what it is. Almost every new car out there can now go 0-60 in ~6 seconds... to name a few: RAV4 v6, Accord v6, Camry v6, Tundra, Ford F150 ecoboost, O heck even your momma's Sienna 2017 (this gets 27 mpg too) is now at the border of 6-7secs. I didn't even mention luxury cars like BMW, Mercedes etc. Many electric cars can also run at 6 secs 0-60. But of course our argument to make ourselves feel better is, our Twins are faster on twisties...... I'd say, it feels way better if our car is fast on twisties and also straight line. Getting your grandma beat on her sienna won't make you feel any better.


Is there still a room for improvement for the Twins? Yes there is.. that is the message of the article.

[Guru Woodman]

Originally Posted by mav1178

The reason why people complain about a torque dip is because as you accelerate, you can feel a momentary lag in acceleration, almost like you took the foot off the gas pedal.

A torque dip feels like my V-Tec is kickin' in yo

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by mav1178

.... a huge what?

DAMN AUTOCORRECT!!!!!!

Well, I tried. It's Friday & I'm hungry... Time to find something to eat

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Toroll

My N/A 2zz Spyder is lighter (2200 lbs), cheaper (~$8k to build), faster (183whp), revs at 8300 rpm, it sounds so awesome, it handles like a go kart... and wait.. it also gets 35+mpg. Sorry, I didn't just pick two.


Back to topic. Our Twins does really need more oooooommmmphh to be honest. Let's not be angry and get but hurt and overreact for some articles like this.. If you open your mind or think about it, this article is for us (unless you are the type of guy who doesn't want a better version of the Twin). This article should help us deliver the message to Toyota/Subaru so they give us more options. If Toyota/Subaru sells a force fed version of the twin, o heck I would trade mine in an instant.

Let's be honest here, our car is slow for what it is. Almost every new car out there can now go 0-60 in ~6 seconds... to name a few: RAV4 v6, Accord v6, Camry v6, Tundra, Ford F150 ecoboost, O heck even your momma's Sienna 2017 (this gets 27 mpg too) is now at the border of 6-7secs. I didn't even mention luxury cars like BMW, Mercedes etc. Many electric cars can also run at 6 secs 0-60. But of course our argument to make ourselves feel better is, our Twins are faster on twisties...... I'd say, it feels way better if our car is fast on twisties and also straight line. Getting your grandma beat on her sienna won't make you feel any better.


Is there still a room for improvement for the Twins? Yes there is.. that is the message of the article.

The build was $8K? The car was free? It was new when you got it? It meets all emission standards? Whooopie you build a custom car that is "better" all round. Good going. Now mass produce it and sell it for a profit.

There will always be faster cars and some of them will be the grossly over powered sedans and SUVs. Needs more oomph for what? so you can get to the next light a 100th of a second before that Mustang? So you can play Fast an Furious for reals? I agree that there should be some sort of option for guys that feel they want more power but want is not need. That sort of article is not going to get you a turbo. It may get normal people to stop buying and kill the model though. Good thing you have your "Spyder" to fall back on if that happens.

[prj3ctm4yh3m]

Originally Posted by Toroll

My N/A 2zz Spyder is lighter (2200 lbs), cheaper (~$8k to build), faster (183whp), revs at 8300 rpm, it sounds so awesome, it handles like a go kart... and wait.. it also gets 35+mpg. Sorry, I didn't just pick two.

-Im sure you snapped your fingers and voila a 2zz appeared and walked itself into the engine bay. That's great.

-Interior looks like the Honda Element cargo area and/or a Play Skool car.

Context was really around whats feasible from a production standpoint.

Originally Posted by Toroll

Let's be honest here, our car is slow for what it is. Almost every new car out there can now go 0-60 in ~6 seconds... to name a few: RAV4 v6, Accord v6, Camry v6, Tundra, Ford F150 ecoboost, O heck even your momma's Sienna 2017 (this gets 27 mpg too) is now at the border of 6-7secs.

How many of these are sub-2800 lbs and/or sub-$30k?

Originally Posted by Toroll

Many electric cars can also run at 6 secs 0-60.

The Tesla Roadster weighs ~500lbs more than your MR and costs triple. TheP85 weighs 5 THOUSAND pounds in order to obtain a ~200mi range.



-its easier said than done, from a production standpoint; Not sure if you realize, but a fracking Fiesta ST weighs more than a BRZ. with no interior and no rear differential and diminutive suspension. Let that sink in for a moment.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Toroll

My N/A 2zz Spyder is lighter (2200 lbs), cheaper (~$8k to build), faster (183whp), revs at 8300 rpm, it sounds so awesome, it handles like a go kart... and wait.. it also gets 35+mpg. Sorry, I didn't just pick two.

... and there's a reason why Toyota discontinued the MR-S.

[Zaku]

Biz what Biz I'm just an enthuiast like everyone else, possibly 86expo staff that just makes me Ichitaka's minion number 3.

Jest aside I'm sure I'll get a chance to give him a "huge" If I ever meet him

Hahhaba

[airjonny]

The journalist obviously doesn't "get" what the twins are about, but I think it is possible to want more power and still appreciate the car for what it is.