Potential Cause of rumored GR86’s blown engine? Seal packing(RTV) was peeled off

[clio]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Ahhh but see that is the trick and where the conspiracy theories fall apart.
Toyota buys the cars from Subaru. That means costs due to factory defects will go right back to Subaru. Toyota wont be out a penny.

I imagine they will be out a penny as Subaru's profits directly correlate to Toyota's

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by clio

I imagine they will be out a penny as Subaru's profits directly correlate to Toyota's

Yes and no. They aren’t going to make a pile out of Subaru anyway. Not compared to their own profits.
Besides even a couple of thousand failures get lost in the noise when you make millions of cars a year.
Not sure why people even think it would even create the slightest blip on their financial radar.

[diga]

Originally Posted by mycrors7

I know BRZ owners who got their cars in August and September

mine was ordered July 2021, delivered late October, build 09/21, VIN less than 00050

[clio]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Yes and no. They aren’t going to make a pile out of Subaru anyway. Not compared to their own profits.
Besides even a couple of thousand failures get lost in the noise when you make millions of cars a year.
Not sure why people even think it would even create the slightest blip on their financial radar.

I don't think it will make a blip, I just was thrown by the penny comment

[BlyatRZ]

Originally Posted by FrickingReallySlow

Did he have a problem. Or just precaution. I think an easier way would be to just get a oil pressure gauge put it on the oil dummy sensor location and have everyone mark their oil pressure at 4K RPM/200F

Anything less than 60psi with factory 0-20W fill and you need to “drop your pants”

Well I'm glad to say that I'm at 79psi with 5w-30 oil @ 4k RPM/200*F. Kinda hate that my first real post here is about this and not about something fun.

Car facts:
2022 BRZ
10/21 build date
13,321 miles

Measured from the stock oil pressure location, I removed it, and I have installed a Prosport Evo oil pressure gauge.

I hope I'm safe, I really don't want to drop my pan and check the pick up tube if I don't have to.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by BlyatRZ

Well I'm glad to say that I'm at 79psi with 5w-30 oil @ 4k RPM/200*F.

... measured at...?

[Rainy]

7.31 Update:just find 2 more useful articles from JP that explain the situation and potential causes of clogged oil pickup
https://www.team-mho.com/gr86-brz/
https://www.vehiclefield.com/blog/41214/

Also, there is a blogger(content uploader) on Weibo (Chinese social media), who actually have a chance to ask a dealer‘s chief mechanic in person regarding this issue on the 10th anniversary GR86 release site(FUJI 86 BRZ Style 2022)

https://weibo.com/1642346197/LDUG7AZot#comment
- the Racing factory team and GR86/BRZ CUP designated vehicles also confirmed the problem of oil seal blockage. However, Just like the info from JP posts， even if the top of the filter of the pickup tube is completely blocked, the oil can be drawn from the other 4 sides because it's a five-sided box shape, not one-sided (like pics below). So it is necessary to check the oil pressure frequently after intense driving.

- No official recall for this issue. If the problem does occur during normal (non-extreme/aggressive, a further explanation of “normal" needed) driving, all vehicles with maintenance can have their engines replaced according to the warranty contract. It is necessary to pay attention that, to any failure accident in track driving, the manufacturer will refuse the warranty (you can read the Warranty Booklet for this, may just be applied on JDM).I

- The design of the stock car is roughly corresponding to 90% of the driving conditions below 4000 rpm(non-intensive). It is necessary to make corresponding modifications, such as the oil pan baffle plate. The baffle plate is to prevent the engine from oil starvation during high G cornering/acceleration when driving on a circuit. also, most of the RTV that peeled off will be blocked on it and will not fall off.

also, STI also provides the oil pan with baffle plate for BRZ CUP car(also suitable for GR86), the part number is ST11109Z2000, just google it. Or you can buy the plate from well-known aftermarket brands like Cusco/Tomei/GReddy, they are all suppliers for CUP cars, like the pic shown below.
- For potential prevention, besides the plate, you can check the dipstick regularly, since some owners suggested that the sealant may stick in the oil dipstick. And you can install an oil pressure metric gauge in advance to prevent low oil pressure.

[mycrors7]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

You know people who got their cars the month ordering opened?

Ordering was opened in June iirc. Japan get them earlier than we did.

Regardless my point is that BRZ’s have been on the road longer than GR86’s have, yet more GR86’s have failed.

Timur’s theory about the machine going out of calibration a few months after they started building makes sense

Originally Posted by diga

mine was ordered July 2021, delivered late October, build 09/21, VIN less than 00050

VIN means nothing, they’re not numbered in order of delivery or build date. It’s randomized

Order timeframe also means nothing
There’s orders made in January of 2022 that haven’t been fulfilled yet orders made in March that arrived already. A friend of mine has been waiting for his January BRZ order and just recently a 2023 model BRZ was delivered to someone who ordered much more recently(in a different state iirc)

[BlyatRZ]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

... measured at...?

Replaced stock pressure switch. Took me a second to realize what you were asking. Updated original post.

[LRNAD90]

First Gen had the Valve Spring issue, Second Gen this Sealant Issue. First Model years are scary, even for Japanese Engineered AND Built vehicles it seems..

Toyota/Subaru needs to take the potential for this being widespread seriously instead of spending time tryign to find a way not to cover repairs. Maybe publicity via coverage by a magazine or Vlogers like Everyday Driver, Savage Geese (both of which own examples) or Smoking Tire would make a difference.

Hopefully Toyota/Subaru will step up and do so, if not, it doesn't say much for the brand integrity..

(In Fact, I think I will reach out to them and put the idea out there)

*EDIT* - Hopefully they will not be afraid of losing favor for press vehicles and ignore it..

[RyanGreener]

Originally Posted by LRNAD90

First Gen had the Valve Spring issue, Second Gen this Sealant Issue. First Model years are scary, even for Japanese Engineered AND Built vehicles it seems..

Toyota/Subaru needs to take the potential for this being widespread seriously instead of spending time tryign to find a way not to cover repairs. Maybe publicity via coverage by a magazine or Vlogers like Everyday Driver, Savage Geese (both of which own examples) or Smoking Tire would make a difference.

Hopefully Toyota/Subaru will step up and do so, if not, it doesn't say much for the brand integrity..

(In Fact, I think I will reach out to them and put the idea out there)

I actually registered to comment here because I now have a vested interest in this. I contacted "The Car Care Nut" on youtube regarding this as well because he is a Toyota Master Tech that has great insight/videos about all toyotas in general. Hopefully you can contact the others too!


Right now based on all the info gathered, this is a typical manufacturing/QC issue with first year vehicles. I know people who work in manufacturing who say the same thing: no matter how reputable or good the company is, first years are what you want to stay away from. If you want the most "reliable" version of the car, wait until the mid-cycle facelift/refresh.

[Petah78]

Originally Posted by Rainy

7.31 Update:just find 2 more useful articles from JP that explain the situation and potential causes of clogged oil pickup
https://www.team-mho.com/gr86-brz/
https://www.vehiclefield.com/blog/41214/

Also, there is a blogger(content uploader) on Weibo (Chinese social media), who actually have a chance to ask a dealer‘s chief mechanic in person regarding this issue on the 10th anniversary GR86 release site(FUJI 86 BRZ Style 2022)

https://weibo.com/1642346197/LDUG7AZot#comment
- Including the Racing factory team and GR86/BRZ CUP designated vehicles also confirmed the problem of oil seal blockage. Just like the info from JP posts，even if the top of the filter of pickup tube is completely blocked, it can ensure that the oil can be drawn from the side because it's five-sided box shapes, not one side (like pics below). So it is necessary to check the oil pressure frequently after intense driving.


- No official recall for this issue. If the problem does occur during normal (non-extreme/aggressive, a further explanation of “normal" needed) driving, all vehicles with maintenance can have their engines replaced according to the warranty contract. It is necessary to pay attention that, to any failure accident in track driving, the manufacturer will refuse the warranty (you can read the Warranty Booklet for this, may just be applied on JDM).

- The design of the stock car is roughly corresponding to 90% of the driving conditions below 4000 rpm(non-intense). it is necessary to make corresponding modifications, such as the oil pan baffle plate. The baffle plate is to prevent the engine from oil starvation during high G cornering/acceleration when driving on a circuit. also, most of the RTV that peeled off will be blocked on it and will not fall off.

also, STI also provides the oil pan with baffle plate for BRZ CUP car, the part number is ST11109Z2000, just google it. or you can buy the plate from well-known aftermarket brands like Cusco/Tomei/GReddy, they are all suppliers for CUP cars, like the pic shown below.
- For potential prevention, besides the plate, you can check the dipstick regularly, since some owners suggested that the sealant may stick in the oil dipstick. And you can install an oil pressure metric gauge in advance to prevent low oil pressure.

I think for early adopters, asking the dealer to install a baffle plate is one of the better preventative action that can be taken at this time.

- Dealer performing the work means you are not going to void your warranty.
- You can bring this problem up with the dealer so the tech can examine your oil pick up and at least clean up the excess RTV around the oil pan and oil pick up.
- The baffle should allow the pick up to be submerged in more oil so the other 4 sides can pick up more oil even if the top surface is clogged.
- According to the article, the baffle is supposed to stop the RTV from making it to the pick up, though I am not sure how.

However, the down side is that if your pick up was clogged and but have not caused enough damage, you are now left with a partially “worn” bearing. Something everyone should ponder carefully.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Petah78

I think for early adopters, asking the dealer to install a baffle plate is one of the better preventative action that can be taken at this time.

- Dealer performing the work means you are not going to void your warranty.
- You can bring this problem up with the dealer so the tech can examine your oil pick up and at least clean up the excess RTV around the oil pan and oil pick up.
- The baffle should allow the pick up to be submerged in more oil so the other 4 sides can pick up more oil even if the top surface is clogged.
- According to the article, the baffle is supposed to stop the RTV from making it to the pick up, though I am not sure how.

However, the down side is that if your pick up was clogged and but have not caused enough damage, you are now left with a partially “worn” bearing. Something everyone should ponder carefully.

Dealers are not going to start redesigning the car. If the engineers determine a baffle plate is needed a TSB will be issued. I wouldn’t hold your breath.

[chipmunk]

I recently sold my 2016, was looking at 2023. But looking at all these posts, I think I'm gonna wait - a Miata or a used Lotus.