A discussion on improving ride quality

[wparsons]

Originally Posted by rs999

So wouldn't the easiest way to get the two cars to match up in front rates is to just add a larger front sway to the FR-S leaving everything else the same?

Sway bar's don't work against the dampers, so adding roll stiffness with stiffer bars still leaves an overdamped spring overdamped.

If you want to change the handling balance (more understeer), then a bigger front bar will work, but if you want to match the spring rate to the dampers better it's no help.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Ok, as promised, some feedback on the RCE yellow springs.

Short version:
"I have them and I love them".

Long version:
They perform as expected, that is, very good but don't expect miracles.

-Ride: When I read random forum suspension review threads, if the review is longer than the above short version I perhaps a bit too often read "It rides better than stock!" I usually filter that down to "I found one stretch of road where I got the impression it rode better, well hard to really remember, you know, also, considering it's lower (), and such".
No, of course you feel the higher spring rate in compression, car feels firmer in compression on larger obstacles. About twice as firm, really. And there are more vibrations because of the higher spring rates. With that out of the way, they do match the dampers and in rebound it does feel equal or better when there are multiple depression in rapid succession. As such it feels more consistent, the stock suspension could feel quite comfy on some surfaces and then really bite you with the damping on others. So overall, it kind of evens out in the ride department and I prefer the yellows for being more consistent. One good week in, I've already gotten used to them and hardly notice them. Still, if this combo would come on a stock car, the press would call it "stiff" (Yes I realize trackers run rates x-times firmer again, but this is my appreciation). A good stock set-up would have been halfway with slightly stiffer springs, and slightly weaker dampers.

- Performance: the whole car feels more planted. Because it is. Less roll. Now comes a point I must point out I have a slightly uprated rear sway bar, 16mm. The car was quite neutral on that one, less understeer, but I also found the diff worked less consistent as the rear wheels sometimes lost road contact. With the springs I can detect some more understeer, but the rears diff is more consistent and because of the overall upped firmness, it is easier to play with the balance. Overall very pleased here, balance is sweet spot for me and the performance suits my driving (This may balance out differently if you run much stickier rubber than stock, I'm on regular summer tires). I also drive a few narrow bumpy (tree ruts) roads. Quickly. While the car with the yellows is definitely sharper over those harsh bumps, I don't feel I'm riding the bumpstops much more/harder and overall, on such roads the springs have not slowed me down, none the least because the suspension/damping keeps the suspension extended. That said, I do wish there was a black version "regular guy" version of this spring with no or max 10mm drop, than I would have gone faster. Also over speedbumps of which we have many. But I understand that the market is probably too little and honestly, I don't drive such roads too often either and I do like the mild drop visually so...

Concluding:
I like that it works with the stock dampers because a "budget" car should be able to have a good (if not perfect) compromise between ride and handling on OE grade dampers if done right... and these spring do this, by necessity with more weight towards handling, but then it is a sports car after all. Excellent upgrade for the $. And €.

And a picture to close off:

Awesome to read! Really glad you're enjoying the RCE Yellows.

I usually try to resist the urge to say these springs make the ride "better" or "worse" than stock. It's just "different" and for many of us that change is one we prefer and the result is a car that's more fun for us.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Everyone has different expectations for their car and knowing where you were coming from and what you were looking for, it's really good to see they're working well for you. Reading stuff like this makes our day.

- Andy

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by RYU

So what have you tried? Please share your mods.

I'd also like to take a moment to note the following:
One of the biggest flaws with the online world of suspension reviews is that the person reviewing can only speak to their universe and their experiences. Please don't tell me the KW V3s ride comfortably because they are firm at any setting and also a bit jarring on rough roads. Same with the Bilstein B14s in varying degrees. Even in stock form the car is still firm.

Before I throw in the towel, I'm hoping to ask the community for ideas on areas I may not have thought about.

FYI: I've gone thru 5 different suspension setups in the BRZ. With my limited research, I've concluded that the rear suspension travel is lacking (i.e. too short) after exhausting all the options.

I'm ready to install offset rear LCAs that increase rear damper stroke by 20mm. I'm not sure that's enough and would also cause the need to screw around with spring heights and potentially helper springs.

I like to be around 15-20mm lowered which isn't asking for a lot I thought. I recently rode in a stock BRZ and realized the ride isn't really too much more comfy even in a stock car. Its been so long I had forgotten that..

Like others here, I have really had a hate/hate relationship with the suspension options for the ft86. I actually drive mine on the street. I've never hit a sewer lid I didn't flinch from. I bought some 2" poly foam to put on my seat to keep from being beat up so bad. The compression damping is always set for the track, not the street! I've had the stock, Airlift, KW V3, and Bilstein B6 struts, and they all suck for street use. I finally bought the HKS Hipermax IV GT struts and put them in last night. Wow, money well spent. Finally I can drive down the road without looking out for the cracks, bumps and road ripples I find along the way. If you drive your ft86 on the street and want a decent ride, these are the struts for you.

[Firestorm_86]

Originally Posted by Racecomp Engineering

Awesome to read! Really glad you're enjoying the RCE Yellows.

I usually try to resist the urge to say these springs make the ride "better" or "worse" than stock. It's just "different" and for many of us that change is one we prefer and the result is a car that's more fun for us.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Everyone has different expectations for their car and knowing where you were coming from and what you were looking for, it's really good to see they're working well for you. Reading stuff like this makes our day.

- Andy

I'd like to say his 16" wheels and fatter sidewalls may help ride a bit. However, I suppose that depends on tire pressure, road, and a host of other things. But if you're running 18's and want a better ride than stock, you're in for an expensive or extremely challenging suspension setup.

[quality_sound]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Like others here, I have really had a hate/hate relationship with the suspension options for the ft86. I actually drive mine on the street. I've never hit a sewer lid I didn't flinch from. I bought some 2" poly foam to put on my seat to keep from being beat up so bad. The compression damping is always set for the track, not the street! I've had the stock, Airlift, KW V3, and Bilstein B6 struts, and they all suck for street use. I finally bought the HKS Hipermax IV GT struts and put them in last night. Wow, money well spent. Finally I can drive down the road without looking out for the cracks, bumps and road ripples I find along the way. If you drive your ft86 on the street and want a decent ride, these are the struts for you.

If you don't like the V3s on the street them you didn't set them correctly. Set properly you can make it ride like a Cadillac. I've used them on 3 different cars and never had an issue getting great street ride quality.

[Racecomp Engineering]

Originally Posted by Firestorm_86

I'd like to say his 16" wheels and fatter sidewalls may help ride a bit. However, I suppose that depends on tire pressure, road, and a host of other things. But if you're running 18's and want a better ride than stock, you're in for an expensive or extremely challenging suspension setup.

That does probably help. With bigger wheels, I'd recommend upgrading the dampers.

- Andy

[Trettiosjuan]

I've heard quite a few rave about the HKS GT coils, ridewise and only a few saying they are no improvement over stock. They fascinate me, being 6kg front, 4kg rear, meaning in practice front rate is almost 3 times the rear, or taking in consideration weight distribution, roughly two times harder for the mass supported. Perhaps makes sense as one sits closer to the rear axle and thus feels the movement there at about twice the rate...

Yes ride especially the smaller edgy stuff becomes better with 16", but that didn't change with the spring swap....

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

I've heard quite a few rave about the HKS GT coils, ridewise and only a few saying they are no improvement over stock. They fascinate me, being 6kg front, 4kg rear, meaning in practice front rate is almost 3 times the rear, or taking in consideration weight distribution, roughly two times harder for the mass supported.

But the lever ratio on the rear is close to 0.56 (IIRC) making the 4kg spring rate effectively 7.15kg.

[Dihudaxia]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Like others here, I have really had a hate/hate relationship with the suspension options for the ft86. I actually drive mine on the street. I've never hit a sewer lid I didn't flinch from. I bought some 2" poly foam to put on my seat to keep from being beat up so bad. The compression damping is always set for the track, not the street! I've had the stock, Airlift, KW V3, and Bilstein B6 struts, and they all suck for street use. I finally bought the HKS Hipermax IV GT struts and put them in last night. Wow, money well spent. Finally I can drive down the road without looking out for the cracks, bumps and road ripples I find along the way. If you drive your ft86 on the street and want a decent ride, these are the struts for you.

After reading what you have written, i feel slightly better abt my choice to purchase the HKS GT coils. Mine should be arriving in a week or so.

May i ask what is your settings like for street use?
I am looking for comfort as well.

[Trettiosjuan]

Originally Posted by stonenewt

But the lever ratio on the rear is close to 0.56 (IIRC) making the 4kg spring rate effectively 7.15kg.

Other way around, the lever reduces the rate of the spring:

Rear wheel ratio = spring ratio x (motion ratio)^2 = 4kg/mm * (0.75)^2 = 2.25kg/mm

[stonenewt]

Originally Posted by Trettiosjuan

Other way around, the lever reduces the rate of the spring:

Rear wheel ratio = spring ratio x (motion ratio)^2 = 4kg/mm * (0.75)^2 = 2.25kg/mm

Doh! you're right

[sam69]

I found the stock suspension prettybad as we live in the country with some crap roads .
I could put up with it but my wife used to avoid getting into the car as much as possible due to an old neck injury.

Looked around for a fair while and was offered a really good deal on a set of Tog coilovers so decided to give them a go and must say I'm rather impressed with the difference in ride comfort while set to comfort / soft out of the 32 possible settings.

Wifey finds it sooooo much better and has no issue at all now with getting into it to go to town or whatever .

They do bottom out on some bigger pot holes etc but you tend to hear it far more than you feel it where as before it was the other way round although you still heard it but not as bad.
Hope that helps for those looking for options to improve your ride.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by quality_sound

If you don't like the V3s on the street them you didn't set them correctly. Set properly you can make it ride like a Cadillac. I've used them on 3 different cars and never had an issue getting great street ride quality.

KW V3's didn't work for me for several reasons. I need at least stock ground clearance for gravel driveways, and the V3's are designed to be lowered at least 1" from stock height. The mounts aren't adjustable, only the spring perch, so lowering any more loses shock travel, and raising causes the shocks to top out. A shitty design, they only work well at a certain height. All coilovers should have threaded mounts.

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by Dihudaxia

After reading what you have written, i feel slightly better abt my choice to purchase the HKS GT coils. Mine should be arriving in a week or so.

May i ask what is your settings like for street use?
I am looking for comfort as well.

I've only had them in for 2 days now. I can't find a manual in english. I know they're adjustable, but which adjustment controls what? The Japanese install pamphlet that came with mine says they are only to be used in Japan. I guess I'm breaking some law there, IDK, by using them here in America. So anyway, I'm putting on a header this weekend, and if I have time, will be adjusting spring perches to lift it to stock height and counting out the stock settings. I've found adjustments are easier 2 clicks at a time, then back 1 click once I go too far. I'll share my final settings once I get them.