Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[DAEMANO]

Finally I went back and found the Phantom ESC vs. KW Supercharger video and post. Keep in mind this is both cars running on e85.

The Phantom launches harder and holds it's lead till about 4k RPM in 3rd gear. That's roughly the very top end of legal highway speeds (and really what's safe on the street). For a DD the Phantom is an incredible value compared to a ridiculously great track focused kit like the KW in nlowell's car.

I really thank him and Sojhinn for being so fourthcoming about their experiences and trying to document them.

For full description of the run and full context, the post is here, The video I placed below.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xvBfkNHPyI"]kraftwerks vs phantom - YouTube[/ame]

Originally Posted by nlowell

I agree with Sojhinn. I'm very happy with my setup (with be even happier when I get a couple of bugs worked out). Car is a beast. It does take RPM to spool up but the power delivery, even on partial throttle, is linear ramping up to a great push back into your seat. The phantom, however, launches very strong down low, getting a jump on a traditional setup like mine. Two different beasts that are both a blast to drive. I still say that the Phantom is a better value for a DD but I can't wait to get the KW to the track

Oh, and not to make excuses, but remember I'm an auto and therefor besides a little brake-start, I have a hard time launching.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

Thanks for finally chiming in Sojhinn. What I also find to be important about this, but difficult to point out, is that, from a roll or from a dig you had nlowell for the first 5-7 seconds of the video and then he pulled ahead. Those speeds (5mph - 60/70mph) are the speeds people actually drive on the road. Above that and it's lose your license time. If I had put $7-10k in power mods/labor into my car, I'd be a little disappointed that it took so long to finally get around someone who spent $2.5k on theirs. This real world value of the Phantom kit remains the difficult point to illustrate in a world that looks for max HP above all else, but rarely uses it. 86 owners should get this point easily, after all our cars are supposed to be about usable/fun performance, but the power bug bites everyone. It's hard to be satisfied.

Originally Posted by Sojhinn

Since I was the guy that tested the kraftwerks vs phantom...

The kraftwerks blew me away plain and simple. I had him to about 50-60 mph and everything beyond that was him. Easily.

Now here's the difference: he's now spent close to 10k on the car.

Around when we raced it was around 7k.

For bang for your buck nothing comes close. Just all the supporting mods needed to run a traditional system start to rack up quickly. And that's not including all the issues that arise when installing the equipment or running that much boost.

Sure it's safe now but how long before something goes wrong? In the terms of the KW? All the damn time for my friend.

The phantom isn't the cure all to FI. It's a fun median though and it fills a niche very few can compete in...

Simple install
5-6 psi
Inexpensive
Reliable

If you look at how long some of us have been running the system... Theres a reason we are really happy. It's just running great.

@VeganGirl @stevo585 @illmatic_frs

[Target70]

I just wanted to note that this was an auto vs manual, so different rear end gearing I believe. That being the case I don't know how much the estimated 5 to 7 second lead would change if they were both manual.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by Target70

I just wanted to note that this was an auto vs manual, so different rear end gearing I believe. That being the case I don't know how much the estimated 5 to 7 second lead would change if they were both manual.

Thanks. That's also in the video, but never hurts to be fully clear. Area under the curve is the difference here mostly.

[Blu-by-U]

Originally Posted by Target70

I just wanted to note that this was an auto vs manual, so different rear end gearing I believe. That being the case I don't know how much the estimated 5 to 7 second lead would change if they were both manual.

Or both AT's. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges. Apple to oranges only tells you which make a better pie.

[DaBozz88]

If I wanted to work on a dev kit for something like this, how would I get in contact with the guy doing production.

A few questions I have are:
Why use batteries over capacitors? This seems like something that will charge and discharge a lot, and that seems like a better fit, conceptually.
How much flexibility does the controller have?
How big of an engine can you hook up to one of these, and how much power can it add on a larger engine?

This looks impressive for low end boost, and I'd like to play around with what it can do. I'm willing to pay for this, and I'm willing to share the results.

Unfortunately I don't have a FRS/BRZ/GT86. I can tell you that when I was buying my car, it was a choice between a BRZ and a Camaro SS. I had to go Tim Allen and get the MORE POWER option. Anyway, the ideas would be tested on a 2003 Pontiac Grand AM, then moved over to my 2013 Camaro.

[stevo585]

Originally Posted by DaBozz88

If I wanted to work on a dev kit for something like this, how would I get in contact with the guy doing production.

A few questions I have are:
Why use batteries over capacitors? This seems like something that will charge and discharge a lot, and that seems like a better fit, conceptually.
How much flexibility does the controller have?
How big of an engine can you hook up to one of these, and how much power can it add on a larger engine?

This looks impressive for low end boost, and I'd like to play around with what it can do. I'm willing to pay for this, and I'm willing to share the results.

Unfortunately I don't have a FRS/BRZ/GT86. I can tell you that when I was buying my car, it was a choice between a BRZ and a Camaro SS. I had to go Tim Allen and get the MORE POWER option. Anyway, the ideas would be tested on a 2003 Pontiac Grand AM, then moved over to my 2013 Camaro.

Well you need to get on the list and wait two years like everyone else. However I don't think this would make much boost on a large motor like the LS3 in the camaro. The grand AM maybe some I'm guessing its a 4 cylinder. You would also have to fab up all wiring and piping...simply not worth it IMO.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by DaBozz88

If I wanted to work on a dev kit for something like this, how would I get in contact with the guy doing production.

A few questions I have are:
Why use batteries over capacitors? This seems like something that will charge and discharge a lot, and that seems like a better fit, conceptually.
How much flexibility does the controller have?
How big of an engine can you hook up to one of these, and how much power can it add on a larger engine?

This looks impressive for low end boost, and I'd like to play around with what it can do. I'm willing to pay for this, and I'm willing to share the results.

Unfortunately I don't have a FRS/BRZ/GT86. I can tell you that when I was buying my car, it was a choice between a BRZ and a Camaro SS. I had to go Tim Allen and get the MORE POWER option. Anyway, the ideas would be tested on a 2003 Pontiac Grand AM, then moved over to my 2013 Camaro.

Hi,
Supercapacitors have been looked at pretty extensively for this application and have not been suitable for the task. Info about a fairly extensive exploration can be found in the open source electric supercharger thread (project looks abandoned). Also in this thread I think @KoolBRZ did pretty extensive research and also found them to be not suitable.

Can you be more specific about controller flexibility? Not sure what you mean.

Robftss did/does offer a developer kit on his website. Don't know if he still does. As mentioned before, the wait for FRS/BRZ kits is pretty long.
http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/developer-kit.html

Due to the kit putting out lower psi (~5) the kit is best suited for lightweight cars where an extra ~50 WHP/~80TQ can really be felt. However larger cars can still benefit from the extra torque.

Rob (the owner) has hooked it up to a 4.6L Silverado the results: http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/...erado-43l.html




Shiv (a supporting tuner) has was working on twin charging (2 paralell ESCs) his V-8 Audi A10 and said it added about 100 extra WHP. Not much info about the project.



And @silent runner has one running on his V-6 Camry
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...postcount=8028

He has a video lighting up the front wheels on this thing. It's a riot.



That's all I could find with a quick search of the thread. Hope it helped in some way.

[stevo585]

So to get just 1/2 capacity or 10ah @ 24 V. You need alot of Farads. It gets expensive.

Ah = F * V / 3600

10 * 3600 / 24 = F

1500 = F

[KoolBRZ]

Originally Posted by stevo585

So to get just 1/2 capacity or 10ah @ 24 V. You need alot of Farads. It gets expensive.

Ah = F * V / 3600

10 * 3600 / 24 = F

1500 = F

So with 4 batteries putting out 20Ah each I have 80 Ah. Using the equation above I get 80 * 3600, or 288,000. Divided by 24 = 12,000 Farads. It wasn't that expensive. Less that $200 for the batteries. The mounts were a little trickier.

[stevo585]

Haha not quite the same. There is a discharge ratio and other things to consider. I'm no EE. I'm a ME for a living. I can be certain that battery farads does not equal capacitor farads.

[KoolBRZ]

Please let me know if want me to make tunes for your CAL ID with my new 40/20 tune. I'll be including 3 tunes, a 1 normal, 1 less advanced, and 1 more advanced. I'll also be including 3 PROcede maps, low boost, medium boost, and high boost, the definition file, and the tune I used to base your tunes from, (usually OFT ESC, or OTS stage 2). This will give you the ability to try and match the tune and PROcede map to the Intake and Exhaust restrictions of your individual setup. Please PM me with your CAL ID if you want your CAL ID to be included.
(Edit)
So far, I have the following CAL IDs to be included.

for Manual Transmissions
A00C
A00G
A00I
A01C
A01G
D01C

for Automatic Transmissions
900D
A00D
A01D
B00D
B01D
D00D

[m111]

I can't wait to try this out.
Thanks

[Urmyson]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Please let me know if want me to make tunes for your CAL ID with my new 40/20 tune. I'll be including 3 tunes, a 1 normal, 1 less advanced, and 1 more advanced. I'll also be including 3 PROcede maps, low boost, medium boost, and high boost, the definition file, and the tune I used to base your tunes from, (usually OFT ESC, or OTS stage 2). This will give you the ability to try and match the tune and PROcede map to the Intake and Exhaust restrictions of your individual setup. Please PM me with your CAL ID if you want your CAL ID to be included.
(Edit)
So far, I have the following CAL IDs to be included.

for Manual Transmissions
A00C
A01C
A00I

for Automatic Transmissions
A00D
B01D

I'm A01D - Automatic

[Sojhinn]

If anyone is interested in a procede for the phantom reach out to me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk