Anyone not buying to avoid early issues like 1st gen FRS?

[SockMonkey]

I haven't read all these pages so maybe I'm reiterating somethings. But I'm not worried at all.

First, I think issues early on were exaggerated, think about it, it's the ones complaining that you hear the most from.

Second, it isn't a new motor like last time. With the 1st gen the FA20 was brand new, and wasn't adapted to the wrx for another 2 years. But with this one, not only is it just an evolved of a motor that is almost 10 years old, a version of the FA24 has been used in the ascent for several years now. So I don't really expect any of the growing pains usually associated with a whole new car.

[itschris]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

It is a minor increase in power and although certainly welcome it will not be sending them all careening into walls all of a sudden. You make it sound like they turned it into a Mustang or something.

Yeah, I don't think the increase in power would have much to do with the feedback Blightly originally referenced.

But does anyone remember all the press around the 991.1 GT3 RS? Randy Pobst spun it multiple times trying to set a fast lap around Laguna, and later that day another journalist wrecked it. Most journalists came away from that event talking about the difficulty of driving that car.

Fast forward to the 991.2 and the same journalists couldn't stop talking about the predictability and ease of driving. Porsche claimed most of the improvement came from revised bushings preventing unwanted geometry changes.

Point being - it's possible (though not necessarily probable) that something weird crept into the second gen design totally unrelated to the power increase.

[timurrrr]

Originally Posted by itschris

... revised bushings preventing unwanted geometry changes ....

... it's possible ... that something weird crept into the second gen design ...

Meanwhile, Toyota changed the bushings in GR 86 "for fun".

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

I agree with your post almost entirely, except for this. The 86 telegraphs incipient loss of traction more than any RWD car I’ve driven, given that it has good tires on it (primaries are fine. I bought mine used with some cooper tires on it and those were shit.)

I'm not suggesting its not an easy car to correct, but the wet is the wet.

Its not easy to correct an aquaplane event!

I've stepped the back end out a number of times in the wet, I once entered an uncontrolled spin exiting a roundabout at ~35kph (my fault I out the foot down too hard too early). Was lucky.

Its probably worth mentioning I habitually turned off assists because it was more fun.

[Blighty]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Bull. Pickup trucks are far worse. People drove rwd for decades without everybody spinning down every road with a curve in it.
This whole “rwd takes special care and skill” thing that has developed is hilarious.

Heh. Well tcoat I beg to differ. Oh sure, no one is going to really have these moments with all the safety features on - but without them then its just physics mate.

You can keep arguing with me, or thinking its BS, but its not - its physics. outside of the computer taking over, RWD cars have NEVER have some kind of built in never spin capability - they have always been the source of crashes for many many years before FWD cars and software overrides came about. Not saying it wasn't fun, my youth was spent mostly in the passenger seat of old heavy v8 holden and fords as friends tried to perfect the fishy. I was in 2 low speed crashes (hit a parked car, and went through a paddock fence).

Surely I can't be the only one that remembers what it used to be like...

[Jaylyons1]

I bought my 2013 as soon as I found one. They weren’t exactly easy to find. That car became my favorite car out of all I’ve owned. The only issue I had was taillight condensation. I’ve put down a deposit to secure a 2022 and doubt there will be many, if any issues.

[StE92ve]

Originally Posted by Blighty

Turn your traction control off in the wet, and even the low torque 86, at low speed, can go on you

Originally Posted by racingfool

It does for those that have only driven with driver aids/abs/traction control.

While learning to drive, wouldn't it be good to learn how to stop a car without abs/tc?

New drivers learn they can just mash on the gas or brakes as hard as they can with no problems.

I see a much bigger problem here, especially in the US, where almost anyone can obtain a drivers license. They teach you to parallel park, use turn signals and recognize road signs but they really don't teach you how to drive. For example: They tell you to turn into a skid but don't give you the opportunity to experience the sensation and apply what you learn. There should be practical demonstrations of real life situations that better prepare the driver. Those that have taken any kind of performance driving course have a distinct advantage over the under-educated driver. Until that happens, the body shops will increase revenue and insurance companies will increase rates.

[racingfool]

Originally Posted by StE92ve

There should be practical demonstrations of real life situations that better prepare the driver.

High school driver training should include autocross.

[soundman98]

Originally Posted by StE92ve

I see a much bigger problem here, especially in the US, where almost anyone can obtain a drivers license. They teach you to parallel park, use turn signals and recognize road signs but they really don't teach you how to drive. For example: They tell you to turn into a skid but don't give you the opportunity to experience the sensation and apply what you learn. There should be practical demonstrations of real life situations that better prepare the driver. Those that have taken any kind of performance driving course have a distinct advantage over the under-educated driver. Until that happens, the body shops will increase revenue and insurance companies will increase rates.

they never taught me to parallel park-- it was in a book lesson, and then never part of the test. i spent months testing myself with it though... it's really just speed limits, road signs, and signaling.

and they never really had defensive driving courses until about 5 years after i graduated--which by then, i was too old to be allowed to participate. and even then, they're very difficult to find, and generally only at race tracks, and once, maybe twice a year at every location.

of course, then i take matters into my own hands, finding completely empty parking lots to practice car control, and a cop 'pulled me over' in that empty lot, threatened to pull my license and impound my car for 'reckless driving'...

i wouldn't know what to do with luck if i ever had it...

[Brz-123]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Is there a turbo kit that is close to OEM quality though? The Works kit is the only one that comes to mind, but IIRC the power bump isn’t much. As far as superchargers only the Harrop kit really works well. Any Rotrex unit needs stupid friction fluid and the Edelbrock unit has MAF reading issues.

And the Cosworth works extremely well. Just need to find a used one. They occasionally come up for sale.

[pzerok]

Do the twins usually the the same issues or is one usually more reliable than the other?

[Brz-123]

Originally Posted by pzerok

Do the twins usually the the same issues or is one usually more reliable than the other?

Exactly the same. Made in the same Subaru Gunma plant and exported worldwide. So there is no difference in reliability what so ever. It's all quirks based on Model Years rather than the brand ( Toyota/Scion/Subaru).

[drift86]

Originally Posted by timurrrr

Meanwhile, Toyota changed the bushings in GR 86 "for fun".

I remember the first test reviews of the GR86 in Japan said it was most like an upgrade of the early model first gen 86.

I have one of the early model first gen 86. The car has practically no understeer and does like to slide on the track. My rear tyres often overheat before my fronts do. But it is very predictable and controllable and I love the way it drives. It's tuned for 'fun' at lower speeds at the expense of stability at higher speeds. On higher speeds corners, it does get a bit nervous. Most of the tracks I go to aren't that fast so that's not really an issue for me.

The only times I can recall unexpected oversteer was when I clipped the outside rear wheel on the ripple strip on the entry of a corner. The car snapped sideways instantly but I caught it intuitively. That may have been bump steer now that I think about it.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by drift86

I remember the first test reviews of the GR86 in Japan said it was most like an upgrade of the early model first gen 86.

I have one of the early model first gen 86. The car has practically no understeer and does like to slide on the track. My rear tyres often overheat before my fronts do. But it is very predictable and controllable and I love the way it drives. It's tuned for 'fun' at lower speeds at the expense of stability at higher speeds. On higher speeds corners, it does get a bit nervous. Most of the tracks I go to aren't that fast so that's not really an issue for me.

The only times I can recall unexpected oversteer was when I clipped the outside rear wheel on the ripple strip on the exit of a corner. The car snapped sideways instantly but I caught it intuitively. That may have been bump steer now that I think about it.

Have you driven an early BRZ? It’s an interesting comparison. I test drove both on a drizzly day, and the Toyota was almost impossible to get around a corner quickly without drifting. The BRZ is much more neutral but still really playful when you want it to be. I see what Toyota wanted to do, but in my opinion it’s a bit much, I prefer the 4wheel drifting of the BRZ vs the all-out dorifto king Toyota.

To each their own obviously, but driving both back to back was very interesting considering they’re pretty much the same car.