Proof that Coilovers Reduce Lap Times??????

[ryoma]

IMO, it is hard to have concrete evidence that the suspension setup improves lap times. there are many variables that are present such as track condition, traffic, vehicle condition, driver condition, temperatures, etc etc. you might be faster one session but then slower the next.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Purist

All good info, thanks all. BUT...

The question was not 'Will coilovers make me faster?'

The post was about actual evidence . Does no one have any actual evidence from their own experience of faster times with after fitting coilovers? Should I post this in a more track-focused discussion?

Without any nuance Yes it will. Look at race series based on road vehicles, cars with factory suspension are classed lower and expected to be slower than cars that can be equipped with aftermarket springs and dampers. Whether it's SCCA autocross or NASA time trials or 86Cup.

Hell SCCA Solo classes an FRS with TRD lowering springs a whole class above one without.

I'd compare STX to CS/DS times but that comes with wider tires and a header/tune

[Purist]

Originally Posted by ryoma

IMO, it is hard to have concrete evidence that the suspension setup improves lap times. there are many variables that are present such as track condition, traffic, vehicle condition, driver condition, temperatures, etc etc. you might be faster one session but then slower the next.

I agree there are many factors but as an example: My times were consistent (over 6 or so runs) low-mid 51s. Just could not go any faster. Got an E85 tune and ended up doing consistent low-mid 50s. Reasonable (but not irrefutable) anecdotal evidence for the E85 tune being good for several tenths.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Guff

Don't have any data of my own, but Marty and Moog have a (not totally scientific) test of this very thing.

That was linked in the very first response btw...

[Guff]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

That was linked in the very first response btw...

Dang, I would blame it on the lack of embedding, but I totally should have clicked on it.

[cjd]

The premise is worthless anyway. Coilovers could be faster or slower, because the resulting setup could be better or worse.

Proper suspension tuning makes the car faster. Coilovers tend to be one of the tools along the way, because they make getting alignment, ride height, spring rates, and damping optimized so much easier.

[Purist]

Originally Posted by cjd

The premise is worthless anyway. Coilovers could be faster or slower, because the resulting setup could be better or worse.

You are 100% correct, which is why I asked for evidence (from people who race) of reduced lap times after fitting coilovers.

[solidONE]

Just look at the fastest lap times in various 'stock' classes where adjustable coilovers are not allowed vs the fastest times being posted by cars in the upper class where coilovers are allowed. It's not 'irrefutable' proof, but it's proof.

The potential for improvement in lap time is there but results may vary.

I was able to drop 1 second on my laps at streets of willow with just coilovers all else equal, though under different conditions on different days.

OTOH, there are guys who 'upgraded' to RSR coilovers from stock shocks and Swift springs, but could not for the life of them improve in lap times. Like I said, results may vary, and do vary. Results are very variable under different variations... of suspension tune.

[FR-Sky]

I think the point of aftermarket coilover or upgrade is that to enhance your car into a better performance. If you upgrade your car, and no performance gain, you are doing something wrong.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Purist

You are 100% correct, which is why I asked for evidence (from people who race) of reduced lap times after fitting coilovers.

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for. Which part of what you typically get in a 'coilover' package? Damping changes? Spring rate changes? Or just that people have successfully found improvements after optimizing suspension with a set of properly designed coilovers?

Suspension setup isn't some bogus science, and data logging consistently demonstrates that it can be optimized. I suspect you're asking people to prove this to you despite the evidence out there already, but can't be sure. If so, that's simply lazy at best. It's also not a one-size-fits-all.

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

I think the point of aftermarket coilover or upgrade is that to enhance your car into a better performance. If you upgrade your car, and no performance gain, you are doing something wrong.

Nah, the most frequent enthusiast coilover install is probably to lower the car and/or provide a bit more clearance for silly wide wheels. While claims are almost always on the side of things being amazeballs, it's questionable...

[FR-Sky]

Originally Posted by cjd

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for. Which part of what you typically get in a 'coilover' package? Damping changes? Spring rate changes? Or just that people have successfully found improvements after optimizing suspension with a set of properly designed coilovers?

Suspension setup isn't some bogus science, and data logging consistently demonstrates that it can be optimized. I suspect you're asking people to prove this to you despite the evidence out there already, but can't be sure. If so, that's simply lazy at best. It's also not a one-size-fits-all.



Nah, the most frequent enthusiast coilover install is probably to lower the car and/or provide a bit more clearance for silly wide wheels. While claims are almost always on the side of things being amazeballs, it's questionable...

Hahaha, thats what i said, "If you upgrade your car, and no performance gain, you are doing something wrong."
Maybe they mentally feels good for themselves. But you can't blame them, they can do whatever they want with their car. lol

[Purist]

Originally Posted by cjd

I'm not sure I understand what you're looking for. Which part of what you typically get in a 'coilover' package? Damping changes? Spring rate changes? Or just that people have successfully found improvements after optimizing suspension with a set of properly designed coilovers?

Yeah sorry I know its a vague question. I'm considering my options to find a few tenths and just was wondering at club/amateur level if just a set of $2000 coilovers and alignment will have any benefits. Seems like unless you really know your shit, or can afford a lot of time with someone who does, its probably not high on the 'bang for buck' performance upgrade list.

Originally Posted by solidONE

I was able to drop 1 second on my laps at streets of willow with just coilovers all else equal, though under different conditions on different days.

OTOH, there are guys who 'upgraded' to RSR coilovers from stock shocks and Swift springs, but could not for the life of them improve in lap times. Like I said, results may vary, and do vary. Results are very variable under different variations... of suspension tune.

And that is what I'm trying to avoid! If I dropped two grand and didn't go any faster I would be devastated.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Purist

Yeah sorry I know its a vague question. I'm considering my options to find a few tenths and just was wondering at club/amateur level if just a set of $2000 coilovers and alignment will have any benefits. Seems like unless you really know your shit, or can afford a lot of time with someone who does, its probably not high on the 'bang for buck' performance upgrade list.



And that is what I'm trying to avoid! If I dropped two grand and didn't go any faster I would be devastated.

What do you want to change in how the car performs? What's your current setup? Two grand doesn't quite get you into the performance oriented setups I'd typically recommend, at least not new. Close, and I'm always forgetting good options so I'm sure something can be put together that meets your needs. But you have to quantify what needs to change, not just "faster"

Also, it is possible you would initially be slower, just because you have to relearn how the car responds to input.

[JazzleSAURUS]

My Forester has been run at autox from fully stock, to fully insane. Every step of the way provided a measurable gain, if it didn't it was reverse, or adjusted until it did.

Measurable being autox run time drops or consistency.

Granted, coming from stock fxt suspension to ST's was a way bigger gain, (and COG correction,) than a stock 86 to some ST's or comparable, but my times dropped 5 seconds, and went from a 3 second window to a .5 second window, (throwing out outliers like a spin, or just totally gaffing it and munching all the cones.)

I view that experience as a very extreme example of what an improved suspension can do for you.

When you go from a non performance oriented suspension to a performance oriented suspension, the gains are massive.

If you set it up incorrectly, you're liable to lose time because you're compensating for your suspensions faults.

One of my friends was very competitive with some custom valved Megans on his 04 WRX, (I know I know!) that were aligned and setup by a wonderful local shop. His times were drastically improved from his stock struts/Cobb spring combo. He upgraded to some Feal's, and was coming in about a second slower than he expected, (consistently.) After another trip to fast track, he dropped 2 seconds, and kept them.

Set up, set up, set up!