FRS / BRZ Intake Manifold - Development Thread - FT-86SpeedFactory by Velox

[VerusEric]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

This is the first I have heard of the cylinders receiving different amounts of fuel. I know the ignition timing is different between the cylinders. Are the cylinder fuel trims defined in romraider?

Thank you for asking this as I was unaware as well. Could someone point us in a direction of the map that shows different fuel trims per cylinder? Or a thread discussing this? I was unaware oems were doing this.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by NotEric6

Thank you for asking this as I was unaware as well. Could someone point us in a direction of the map that shows different fuel trims per cylinder? Or a thread discussing this? I was unaware oems were doing this.

Theoretically they do, but it's small enough that OEMs still use one O2 sensor per bank to figure things out.

Only big $$$$$$ race teams are monitoring each individual cylinder.

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by NotEric6

Thank you for asking this as I was unaware as well. Could someone point us in a direction of the map that shows different fuel trims per cylinder? Or a thread discussing this? I was unaware oems were doing this.

I'm not aware of any threads talking about it but most oem ecu's on a performance car i've ever measured in this way runs different cylinder maps or at least offset tables for each cylinder for both ignition and fuel. This is why aftermarket ecu's with a single table for fuel and also for ignition often run pretty badly at idle and transient compared to oem.

I'm running a Motec ecu on my GT86 with 4 lambda's (one per header) and its very clear just how bad the intake and exhaust paths are and the amount of difference required. Its not a constant offset either, amounts cross over. If you measure each intake runner and exhaust runner length they all have a different total overall tuned length so it's not surprising at all.

When will pricing and completion date be confirmed on this?

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

I'm not aware of any threads talking about it but most oem ecu's on a performance car i've ever measured in this way runs different cylinder maps or at least offset tables for each cylinder for both ignition and fuel. This is why aftermarket ecu's with a single table for fuel and also for ignition often run pretty badly at idle and transient compared to oem.

I'm running a Motec ecu on my GT86 with 4 lambda's (one per header) and its very clear just how bad the intake and exhaust paths are and the amount of difference required. Its not a constant offset either, amounts cross over. If you measure each intake runner and exhaust runner length they all have a different total overall tuned length so it's not surprising at all.

When will pricing and completion date be confirmed on this?

AFAIK the stock setup only varies the ignition timing per cylinder, and even that is just cylinders A + B that are equally retarded IIRC (might be C and D). ECUtek has per cylinder fueling trims in the RaceROM upgrade but they are all the same, leading me to believe that this is how it is stock.

Is there any way you can publish the data on the cylinders and what you found?

OT but Tim are you in the UK? I guess if you're running a Motec then you've a little more than a standard car.

[SirBrass]

I just saw this thread... subb'd!

I volunteer as tribute!

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

AFAIK the stock setup only varies the ignition timing per cylinder, and even that is just cylinders A + B that are equally retarded IIRC (might be C and D). ECUtek has per cylinder fueling trims in the RaceROM upgrade but they are all the same, leading me to believe that this is how it is stock.

Is there any way you can publish the data on the cylinders and what you found?

OT but Tim are you in the UK? I guess if you're running a Motec then you've a little more than a standard car.

Yes i am in the UK. I wouldn't want to publish my map data as it takes a lot of time and money to work these things out. I've got £1600 (2400usd) in lambda alone and it how i earn my living. What i will say is the trim tables need to be more than a single value for each cylinder.

Car is not standard no. It has an NA build now and i'm about to do a turbo build. Dead keen to find a proper intake manifold though as I want to run loads of boost and stumbled across this thread. Some awesome products appearing now for this car at last

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

Yes i am in the UK. I wouldn't want to publish my map data as it takes a lot of time and money to work these things out.

I was more interested in what you had found on the stock setup, rather than how you improved on it

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

I was more interested in what you had found on the stock setup, rather than how you improved on it

Didn't do anything with the stock setup unfortunately. Took the car to the racetrack straight from the showroom to see what it was like then brought it back and put a Motec on it.

[flippy]

Originally Posted by NotEric6

@Dimman, we definitely sucked the air through, no blowing.

I told myself I wasn't going to post anymore of the intake manifold until it was finished but I can't help myself. This is sexy...

It's so beautiful

[DustinS]

All this talk about sucking and blowing, with all these sexy pictures makes me wonder why this hasn't been labeled NSFW.

[Calum]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

Yes i am in the UK. I wouldn't want to publish my map data as it takes a lot of time and money to work these things out. I've got £1600 (2400usd) in lambda alone and it how i earn my living. What i will say is the trim tables need to be more than a single value for each cylinder.

Car is not standard no. It has an NA build now and i'm about to do a turbo build. Dead keen to find a proper intake manifold though as I want to run loads of boost and stumbled across this thread. Some awesome products appearing now for this car at last

Can you share any more of what was done to the car and what the end result was power wise? Or was it just a motec and your own special sauce to get more out of the stock hardware?

I was aware of the unequal length of the exhaust manifold, where do the variances in the tuned length of the intake runners come from?

[Tim Radley]

Originally Posted by Calum

Can you share any more of what was done to the car and what the end result was power wise? Or was it just a motec and your own special sauce to get more out of the stock hardware?

I was aware of the unequal length of the exhaust manifold, where do the variances in the tuned length of the intake runners come from?

If you measure the intake manifold runners there is over an inch difference in length between shortest and longest. Cylinder 4 is a straight run I one plane but the others are all on a dog leg with cylinder 1 being the worst and longest

[ISDriven]

I'll take mine with a "blued" finish please!

[VerusEric]

Originally Posted by Tim Radley

If you measure the intake manifold runners there is over an inch difference in length between shortest and longest. Cylinder 4 is a straight run I one plane but the others are all on a dog leg with cylinder 1 being the worst and longest

We had our suspicions that the OEM intake manifold doesn't distribute air evenly to each cylinder. Believing that the OEM ECU does not correct for this (which still seems like a viable assumption), we plan to pick up some power by balancing the cylinder distribution some while improving the overall efficiency through reduced flow losses. That was the goal at least.

I have no doubt that you can pick up significant power by optimizing cylinders. There is a great video on youtube detailing how NASCAR does this and they pick up multiple percentages of power. I just didn't think OEMs were to that point yet.