And yet another one! :'(

[neutral]

Originally Posted by Hotlava86

please stop hurting these beautiful cars...it is actually really upsetting.

No one is "hurting" them. You are dealing with personification, which is attributing emotions and human-like qualities to inanimate objects. These cars are nothing more than metal, electronics and bolts. It'll make seeing these crashes a lot easier if you accept that fact

Honestly trying to help, because you're going to be seeing a lot more of these I'm sure.

EDIT: It doesn't help that cars make "faces" with the headlights and bumpers. Makes personification a lot easier to occur.

EDIT AGAIN: Yes I teared up and almost cried when I saw my FR-S after the crash. IT'S A PROCESS OK?

[BRZranger]

Originally Posted by neutral

No one is "hurting" them. You are dealing with personification, which is attributing emotions and human-like qualities to inanimate objects. These cars are nothing more than metal, electronics and bolts. It'll make seeing these crashes a lot easier if you accept that fact

Honestly trying to help, because you're going to be seeing a lot more of these I'm sure.

EDIT: It doesn't help that cars make "faces" with the headlights and bumpers. Makes personification a lot easier to occur.

My BRZ is offended by your comment :mad:

[Mr 286]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

That's what I'm saying, it has to be something with the dynamics of the car, unless they're hiding some other details about the incident. I knew, KNEW someone would quote sales numbers to back up why there haven't been any BRZ crashes. Gimme a break guys, there's been several reports for the FR-S, I have yet to see a BRZ crash. Prove me wrong, that's fine! I'm not trying to stir up anything bad, I really think there might be something of concern with the way the car handles. It could be ever-so-slight, or it could be another factor. I guess who knows.

It has to be something with the dynamics? Really? So I guess the testing programs from two world-class auto manufacturers wasn't able to detect this problem that you can clearly see from a few second hand accident reports on the Internet.

Have you driven an FR-S or BRZ? From what empirical evidence do you base this claim?

[Matador]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

That's what I'm saying, it has to be something with the dynamics of the car, unless they're hiding some other details about the incident. I knew, KNEW someone would quote sales numbers to back up why there haven't been any BRZ crashes. Gimme a break guys, there's been several reports for the FR-S, I have yet to see a BRZ crash. Prove me wrong, that's fine! I'm not trying to stir up anything bad, I really think there might be something of concern with the way the car handles. It could be ever-so-slight, or it could be another factor. I guess who knows.

Happy?

[alyon]

Despite the different production figures frs vs brz wrecks have been fairly similar it seems.

[ERZperformance]

Originally Posted by Matador

Happy?

Wow!

[dem00n]

Its common, a lot of people buying these cars are going to surprised by how it handles and won't know what to do when the car goes sideways or loses control a little bit. I say let it be, accidents are the best way to learn how to drive sometimes.

[Turbowned]

Originally Posted by Mr 286

It has to be something with the dynamics? Really? So I guess the testing programs from two world-class auto manufacturers wasn't able to detect this problem that you can clearly see from a few second hand accident reports on the Internet.

Have you driven an FR-S or BRZ? From what empirical evidence do you base this claim?

Yes, I have driven them and yes, it is possible for them to overlook these things. Hence why I made an example of the 1991-1992 MR2's as being prone to snap oversteer and causing a lot of accidents. The 1993-1995 model year MR2's were changed to a staggered tire setup as a result. They also eliminated the rear trunk in the MR2 Spyder because a full trunk in the earlier cars could upset the balance enough to cause snap oversteer issues. If you listen to what some of the pro drivers say, here's your empirical data:

Randy Pobst: "I like the Subaru better, primarily because it's less loose on entry. In the Scion, you feel the back move almost before the front. In the Subaru, it's more one piece. And I can be more aggressive entering turns with the Subaru. It's a decreasing maneuver -- I'm entering on the brakes and cornering -- and because the Subaru isn't as tail-happy, I can use more brakes entering the corner and carry more speed in. It's the same thing coming off the corner. The Subaru doesn't oversteer as easily, so I can get to the power sooner."

And the staff of Motor Trend said similar:

Lago: "The BRZ seems a bit slower to transition from understeer to oversteer than the FR-S. It stays neutral longer, where the FR-S switches quickly back and forth. I was able to hold the BRZ right in that space between the two extremes longer, and I like that extra stability."

Mortara: "Like other Subarus, the BRZ rolls, something that I actually like. This is what gives the BRZ an edge over the FR-S. The roll makes the car less edgy, less prone to kick the rear out, unless you really want it to."

Jurnecka: "On the track and skidpad, the BRZ just feels a little more dialed-in than the FR-S. There's a little more grip and a little more control -- all very, very small stuff, but it's noticeable."



Read more: http://m.motortrend.com/roadtests/co...#ixzz23l5aPjbI

[Turbowned]

Well, there are the wrecked BRZ's, however only the third one appears to have gotten away from the driver.

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

And people claim that the FR-S has "better" suspension than the BRZ - have we seen any wrecked BRZ's yet? I think it's gotta be just a little bit too twitchy for people's own good! Reminds me of the 1991-92 MR2's and their snap-oversteer issues.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...691#post384691

[whataboutbob]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

That's what I'm saying, it has to be something with the dynamics of the car, unless they're hiding some other details about the incident. I knew, KNEW someone would quote sales numbers to back up why there haven't been any BRZ crashes. Gimme a break guys, there's been several reports for the FR-S, I have yet to see a BRZ crash. Prove me wrong, that's fine! I'm not trying to stir up anything bad, I really think there might be something of concern with the way the car handles. It could be ever-so-slight, or it could be another factor. I guess who knows.

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...691#post384691

[Shagaliscious]

I like how quick people are to judge...did anyone read the article?

This owner has 30+ years of driving experience and this was not his first or third rwd car.

He was experienced, probably a lot more then most of us.

Originally Posted by Turbowned

Well, there are the wrecked BRZ's, however only the third one appears to have gotten away from the driver.

Yea, that first one you can just buff out...he clearly slid into a pole with the shape of that damage. Driver lost control of that car.

[Rampage]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

That's what I'm saying, it has to be something with the dynamics of the car, unless they're hiding some other details about the incident. I knew, KNEW someone would quote sales numbers to back up why there haven't been any BRZ crashes. Gimme a break guys, there's been several reports for the FR-S, I have yet to see a BRZ crash. Prove me wrong, that's fine! I'm not trying to stir up anything bad, I really think there might be something of concern with the way the car handles. It could be ever-so-slight, or it could be another factor. I guess who knows.

As stated above there have been several BRZ accidents reported on this forum. You just have to look for them.

It is not a shortcoming of the car's dynamics. It is a shortcoming of the drivers. They lack driving skill and common sense.

[noAE86]

Originally Posted by Shagaliscious

I like how quick people are to judge...did anyone read the article?



He was experienced, probably a lot more then most of us.




Yea, that first one you can just buff out...he clearly slid into a pole with the shape of that damage. Driver lost control of that car.

30 years driving experience does not always tally up to good car control knowlage, i know 12 year old kids with 3 years karting experience teach 30+ year olds how to track race, and 16 year old farmers who can slide a 4wd like a finland nutta,