86 BRZ evolution

[God_speed]

So I have an early (GT) 86 and recently got to drive the latest (and last) BRZ. Some differences did strike me, most of them are due to the difference between the 86 and the BRZ (like the shocks, the BRZ has a back-end that is a lot less nervous and more comfortable over bumps and putholes). But some difference are maybe due to the evolution the Toybaru has gone through over the years. I mean, the engine seems to have become quieter, with increased suppleness at the bottom of the revs. Less harsh also at low revs (which is good) and less raw at high revs (which is bad).
Does someone have a detailed view of the mechanical, non cosmetic, changes the Toybaru has gone through over the years?

[Tcoat]

Here you go

[nikitopo]

Do you have a 968cs? Here is a bonus photo at the Continental race track. The 968cs topped at 252 km/h. Not bad for a 26 years old car!

[JesseG]

I like to hear first hand experience between the older model twins and the refreshed version. I’m sure all of the exact changes are listed, but how it feels to drive is just as important. And then you have differences between the 86 and BRZ. Like how the FRS was set up to be a little more tail happy than the BRZ.

I haven’t had the chance to spend time with a 2017+ twin, so all of this info helps. Some of the changes remind me a little of the changes made to the S2000 from AP1 to AP2. Refining the car is the main goal, and removing some harshness, while still keeping the good parts. I know if I bought a new 86 there would be some things I miss from my FRS. But it will probably be easier to drive the 86 every day. My FRS with TRD lowering springs rides very stiff, and the rear end can get very nervous at times. It’s never uncontrollable, just nervous.


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[HKz]

i had a '13 without lowering springs, currently have a '16 with lowering springs and I played with a '18 to see if it was worth considering replacing for the new engine...unless you want a little more refinement there's really no appreciable differences to me

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JesseG

I like to hear first hand experience between the older model twins and the refreshed version. I’m sure all of the exact changes are listed, but how it feels to drive is just as important. And then you have differences between the 86 and BRZ. Like how the FRS was set up to be a little more tail happy than the BRZ.

I haven’t had the chance to spend time with a 2017+ twin, so all of this info helps. Some of the changes remind me a little of the changes made to the S2000 from AP1 to AP2. Refining the car is the main goal, and removing some harshness, while still keeping the good parts. I know if I bought a new 86 there would be some things I miss from my FRS. But it will probably be easier to drive the 86 every day. My FRS with TRD lowering springs rides very stiff, and the rear end can get very nervous at times. It’s never uncontrollable, just nervous.


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Having driven a bunch of different years and versions I can safely say that during STREET driving the differences were so small you probably wouldn't even notice unless looking for them. Even the PP doesn't make a massive difference. Unfortunately the subdivision streets that were under construction so I was using as a test track now have people and houses so I don't have a great place to compare the 2020. I would suspect from the bit I have got to push it that it is about the same as the older BRZs but just a tad stiffer through the body.

[Sasquachulator]

Originally Posted by JesseG

I like to hear first hand experience between the older model twins and the refreshed version. I’m sure all of the exact changes are listed, but how it feels to drive is just as important. And then you have differences between the 86 and BRZ. Like how the FRS was set up to be a little more tail happy than the BRZ.

I haven’t had the chance to spend time with a 2017+ twin, so all of this info helps. Some of the changes remind me a little of the changes made to the S2000 from AP1 to AP2. Refining the car is the main goal, and removing some harshness, while still keeping the good parts. I know if I bought a new 86 there would be some things I miss from my FRS. But it will probably be easier to drive the 86 every day. My FRS with TRD lowering springs rides very stiff, and the rear end can get very nervous at times. It’s never uncontrollable, just nervous.


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From what i remember test driving the cars (2013 sometime after it came out, 2017 after the refresh), the only real thing i noticed was that the car felt much more refined. Engine wasnt as growly, noise didnt seem as bad as i thought, still drove the same. I dont remember about the ride quality difference (the one major thing between the pre-refresh and the refresh). I do remmeber it being relatively comfortable and not too jarring over bumps.
Power and delivery didnt seem different. I bet most of this stuff would be noticeable on a back to back between them. Driving them years apart the only thing i noticed was the refinement.

That'd be the reason i'd lean towards the 17+ models, the more refined nature of it (that and the availabielity of the uplevel interior on the 2018+ without a special edition car)

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by HKz

i had a '13 without lowering springs, currently have a '16 with lowering springs and I played with a '18 to see if it was worth considering replacing for the new engine...unless you want a little more refinement there's really no appreciable differences to me

I guess it’s hard to compare ride quality from your ‘13 to ‘16 because of the springs. Did you ever drive your ‘16 without the lowering springs?
So the main difference you noticed were some nicer interior pieces, etc? Were you able to really get on the ‘18 and rev it out?


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Having driven a bunch of different years and versions I can safely say that during STREET driving the differences were so small you probably wouldn't even notice unless looking for them. Even the PP doesn't make a massive difference. Unfortunately the subdivision streets that were under construction so I was using as a test track now have people and houses so I don't have a great place to compare the 2020. I would suspect from the bit I have got to push it that it is about the same as the older BRZs but just a tad stiffer through the body.

You are a great subject matter expert on this topic! The changes have been small from year to year. Someone going from a ‘13 to a ‘20 would probably notice the most differences. There are so many variables with the twins, which car you have FRS, 86, or BRZ, the year, handling/performance pack, mods, etc.
At a minimum I think I would appreciate the nicer interior parts. And in your case that amazing color.


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[JesseG]

Originally Posted by Sasquachulator

From what i remember test driving the cars (2013 sometime after it came out, 2017 after the refresh), the only real thing i noticed was that the car felt much more refined. Engine wasnt as growly, noise didnt seem as bad as i thought, still drove the same. I dont remember about the ride quality difference (the one major thing between the pre-refresh and the refresh). I do remmeber it being relatively comfortable and not too jarring over bumps.
Power and delivery didnt seem different. I bet most of this stuff would be noticeable on a back to back between them. Driving them years apart the only thing i noticed was the refinement.

That'd be the reason i'd lean towards the 17+ models, the more refined nature of it (that and the availabielity of the uplevel interior on the 2018+ without a special edition car)

Yeah that’s a really good point, if you had a chance to drive them immediately back to back more differences might have been apparent.
I’m still really torn between keeping my FRS, getting a 2020 86 or BRZ, or waiting for the 2nd gen.
A little more refinement would be welcome, without changing the character of the car. I owned a 2002 WRX, and the new WRX feels MUCH different. Mostly in good ways, but it has lost some of the charm and mechanical feel. I think the same thing would happen to the twins if they are around that long. Which is true of basically every car.
I’m strongly considering swapping the stock springs for my TRD springs. I love how it looks and the lack of body roll, but it can be jarring over any road imperfection. And the rear gets jittery if there is a bump mid corner. I can’t imagine what it would be like without a LSD.


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[etherdude]

Up until late March, I was driving my 2015 FR-S. It had just over 70,000 miles when it got shipped to California. I purchased a 2020 Hakone Edition in October of last year (so almost 6 months of overlap), then sold my FR-S to my nephew. Even having owned the 2020 Hakone for 10 months, I only have 2,500 miles on it due to it being garaged over the winter and the pandemic since mid-March.

I have used the same 215/45-17 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on both cars. I run a K&N drop in air filter and stock exhaust/tune on both cars. That said, I have a few observations regarding differences:

1. The 2015 FR-S is "growlier". It is noticeably louder (engine noise, not exhaust) as one accelerates.
2. The 2015 "rattles" more. IT NEVER has felt as tight and "put together" as the 2020. My wife always tensed up over rough pavement.
3. The 2020 feels smoother and doesn't jar one as much over rough pavement.
4. The difference in gearing shows up in daily driving. The 2020 accelerates better in 6th gear at freeway speeds (65-80). I can cruise back roads at 38-45 mph comfortably in 6th in the 2020. Had to use 5th in the 2015.
5. As the 2020 gets broken in and starts running more freely, I would say overall performance and handling is quite equivalent. The 2020 just feels a bit quieter overall and more refined.
6. The FR-S/86/BRZ has always had the look of a GT car but with the ride, handling, and personality of a classic sports car. The 2015 FR-S emphasizes this dichotomy while the 2020 86 leans a bit more to the "GT" side of the equation.
7. The stock sound system in the 2015 FR-S sounds infinitely better than the 2020, but lacks Android Auto.

I love both of the cars, my wife likes the 2020 quite a bit better.

[JesseG]

Originally Posted by etherdude

Up until late March, I was driving my 2015 FR-S. It had just over 70,000 miles when it got shipped to California. I purchased a 2020 Hakone Edition in October of last year (so almost 6 months of overlap), then sold my FR-S to my nephew. Even having owned the 2020 Hakone for 10 months, I only have 2,500 miles on it due to it being garaged over the winter and the pandemic since mid-March.

I have used the same 215/45-17 Michelin Pilot Sport 4S tires on both cars. I run a K&N drop in air filter and stock exhaust/tune on both cars. That said, I have a few observations regarding differences:

1. The 2015 FR-S is "growlier". It is noticeably louder (engine noise, not exhaust) as one accelerates.
2. The 2015 "rattles" more. IT NEVER has felt as tight and "put together" as the 2020. My wife always tensed up over rough pavement.
3. The 2020 feels smoother and doesn't jar one as much over rough pavement.
4. The difference in gearing shows up in daily driving. The 2020 accelerates better in 6th gear at freeway speeds (65-80). I can cruise back roads at 38-45 mph comfortably in 6th in the 2020. Had to use 5th in the 2015.
5. As the 2020 gets broken in and starts running more freely, I would say overall performance and handling is quite equivalent. The 2020 just feels a bit quieter overall and more refined.
6. The FR-S/86/BRZ has always had the look of a GT car but with the ride, handling, and personality of a classic sports car. The 2015 FR-S emphasizes this dichotomy while the 2020 86 leans a bit more to the "GT" side of the equation.
7. The stock sound system in the 2015 FR-S sounds infinitely better than the 2020, but lacks Android Auto.

I love both of the cars, my wife likes the 2020 quite a bit better.

Those are some really good observations! I like the growl of my FR-S and would really miss that. I have the TRD intake. Maybe your 86 will get more aggressive sounding as you break it in.
Does the 86 feel more composed mid-corner? There are a few corners I take...ahem....at speed, and my car rotates like a champ and is very quick through the corner, but I have to be careful of upsetting the rear end too much.
A lot of reviews I’ve seen praise the new 86/BRZ for being more composed through corners. At the cost of some of the excitement. Tires make a big difference here also. I’m back on the stock tires, previously I had Continental ExtremeContact and they did feel grippier and less prone to mid-corner antics.
And above all else, happy wife, happy life.


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[RToyo86]

I traded keys with a friends 14 FRS for a drive.

The differences aren't night and day, but the subtle refinements are there on the newer car.
My friend noticed it more having a lot of seat time with his car getting into mine.


Things like gearing change from 4.1 to 4.3 were noticeable on track. For example my friends 14 FRS has better gearing for the west track at CMP.
I'm hitting limiter in 4th coming down the straight with short gap where I can shift to fifth then immediately grab a 4-3 downshift, where the older cars with the 4.1 pretty much run to limiter before turn 4.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by JesseG

Yeah that’s a really good point, if you had a chance to drive them immediately back to back more differences might have been apparent.
I’m still really torn between keeping my FRS, getting a 2020 86 or BRZ, or waiting for the 2nd gen.
A little more refinement would be welcome, without changing the character of the car. I owned a 2002 WRX, and the new WRX feels MUCH different. Mostly in good ways, but it has lost some of the charm and mechanical feel. I think the same thing would happen to the twins if they are around that long. Which is true of basically every car.
I’m strongly considering swapping the stock springs for my TRD springs. I love how it looks and the lack of body roll, but it can be jarring over any road imperfection. And the rear gets jittery if there is a bump mid corner. I can’t imagine what it would be like without a LSD.


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https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73739