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Old 03-26-2014, 11:38 AM   #1
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Roll cage/bar Question

I use my car as a DD and occasionally carry people in the back seat. I want a roll bar or cage that still allows access to the rear seat and seat belts, the agency power roll bar seems promising as well as the cusco 4 point bar and 6 point cage. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with either of these or has other suggestions. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:41 AM   #2
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The harness bar that has to go across the cabin behind the seats makes the back seats extremely unsafe for passengers. While some kits allow for removal of the harness bar when not on a track, it is up to the owner to actually follow through with that (which many don't).

That being said, how the hell do you fit people in the back seat? Are these... tiny people?
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:53 AM   #3
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Unless you want those people to die, please do not use a roll cage for daily use AND carry people.

In fact, don't use a roll cage for a daily driver at all.

If you have to ask... just imagine which will win: steel tube, versus your head.

-alex
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:55 AM   #4
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I'm not planning on using a harness (that i know of) so maybe there is a bar that sits higher in the rear seat?

It's usually me and my friend in the front and the girlfriends in the back, not a very comfortable setup, but I would like to be able to move more than one person .
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Old 03-26-2014, 11:57 AM   #5
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I ask about the bar because I would like to go to the local track occasionally, and be a little more safe
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:00 PM   #6
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you have a completly backwards understanding of what a rollbar/cage is supposed to do and how it improves safety

i will edit this post in a moment to explain why, after i finish my sandwich
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:09 PM   #7
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I ask about the bar because I would like to go to the local track occasionally, and be a little more safe
I have been going to the track without a harness/roll cage, and it's perfectly safe.

If you are driving to the point where you are at serious risk of a rollover and are asking this question, you're not driving your car right.

A roll cage is part of a safety SYSTEM. Again, even if you were parked and some drunk driver broadsided you with your girlfriend in the back seat, what will happen to her head?

You don't need to be moving to get hit. And you most definitely don't need a cage at the track to be safe.

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Old 03-26-2014, 12:09 PM   #8
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Thanks, I will admit there are things I don't know, and that's why I ask. I'm looking for rollover protection, while maintaining the use of my rear seats.

Also, sandwich always comes first haha
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:16 PM   #9
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Car safety is a system.

The system of your oem is that of crumple zones, a 3-point seatbelt, seats that move/fold down, airbags and collapsible steering wheels. This is actually pretty darn safe. Even on the track, the chances of you dying in your car are super low. Especially if you just do lapping and point by passing in a controlled environment.

And if the car rolls, and IF the roof collapses on to you, the 3-point harness and your seat are designed in such a way as to allow your body greater movement to avoid getting crushed.

A roll bar is a reinforcement that is bolted/welded into the frame of the car. All organizations have minimum requirements for the design being two bars running diagonally from the main hoop to the back, and a cross bar from the driver’s head to the opposite floor… like this is an absolute minimum. The laws of physics and triangulation demand it. But a cross bar in the middle as well as triangulation between the rear bars is also standard.

The main purpose of the rollbar is to increase the roof’s resistance to collapse during a rollover, but it also adds a lot of stiffness to the chassis and reduces the crumple effects of the oem design. These forces have to go somewhere.. and that somewhere is you. Going back to safety being a “system” if you get a roll bar you’d need a fixed bucket seat as well as a harness. Because if your OEM seat folds in an accident, it’s going to hit the metal bars in the rear, and if you go sliding around into the back of the car during an accident you’re gonna get a beating.

If you have people in the back seat, they will get mangled and most likely die, assuming they even get in there to begin with.


If you want a proper roll bar and functioning rear seats, this is an impossibility.

If you are going to install a roll bar, you’re going to need to get all the other bits as well, because otherwise you are creating more danger for yourself.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:28 PM   #10
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I travel on a very dangerous road were cars routinely get flattened and people die. I have been looking at the Cusco 4 point and my worries have been the function of the rear air bag and if I can get enough padding on the rear bars to keep it safe for my kids
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:37 PM   #11
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Well, it seems that I'm rather dumb when it comes to safety haha. I'll have to do some more research, sounds like a roll bar isn't what I need for how I'm using my car.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:42 PM   #12
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its pretty simple, if you're going to have people in the back seat(ie, important ones like children), DONT RUN A HARNESS BAR/CAGE.

and @dirtymax, are you parking/and or driving around in monster truck arena's with your kids? Where is it that people routinely die all the time?(I'm joking lol-I know CA roads are pretty bad). A cage/4 point will only make the back seat more un-safe(even with padding), and more difficult to get in and out of.
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
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I travel on a very dangerous road were cars routinely get flattened and people die. I have been looking at the Cusco 4 point and my worries have been the function of the rear air bag and if I can get enough padding on the rear bars to keep it safe for my kids
don't forget, you make a car really strong, paramedics ain't gonna get you out with a claw in time

everything is a compromise, a rollbar is a bad solution for your problem

also, from what i udnerstand, the FRS is pretty damn rigid in terms of roofline.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:15 PM   #14
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I travel on a very dangerous road were cars routinely get flattened and people die. I have been looking at the Cusco 4 point and my worries have been the function of the rear air bag and if I can get enough padding on the rear bars to keep it safe for my kids
Pleeeeease do not get the Cusco "roll cage." It is not a safety improvement in my opinion.

Rollcage padding is not there so that you can hit your head on it and be fine.

Rollcage means you must wear a helmet and wear a harness.

Rollcage is for a TRACK car only.

Back half roll bar is streetable when used correctly.

Either way, there should be no one, especially not children, in the backseat.

If you routinely travel on a dangerous road with your kids, just drive slower and more carefully!

IMO there are three proper ways to approach this kind of thing.

1. Completely stock. Helmet on the track.

2. Properly implemented roll bar with harness bar, harnesses + helmet for the track. Just remove your back seat.

3. Full welded in cage installed by professionals. Never driven on the street. Helmet + harness. No "style" roll cages made for showcars with thin tubing and stupid bends bolted in with weak ass junk hardware.


EDIT: and as Dave said, proper fixed back seats with option 2 and 3 are a must.

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