follow ft86club on our blog, twitter or facebook.
FT86CLUB
Ft86Club
Speed By Design
Register Garage Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum - FT86CLUB > GR86 - Second Generation 86 > GR86 General Topics

GR86 General Topics General topics for the GR86 second-gen 86


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 04-14-2021, 09:52 PM   #29
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: '17 BRZ with PP
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 479
Thanks: 482
Thanked 240 Times in 156 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dake View Post
The problem with watching a video of a digital readout is you get flicker. Just like how modern car's headlights appear to flash or strobe on video, you're dealing with two different flickers not syncing up which contributes to the appearance of gaps or slow rates.
You're confusing the hardware flicker (whether due to backlight lamp, PWM of the LED backlight or PWM of the individual pixels if the display is OLED) with screen refresh.
You can still have as much flicker at 2 Hz data refresh rate as at a 60 Hz data refresh rate (assuming a 60 Hz screen).
You see flicker on the graphics of the gauges themselves, and yet they are static

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dake View Post
I really don't think this is something you'll be able to see under any normal kind of operation unless you are literally staring at it while driving down the road (which is not a good idea).
That's arguable.
I definitely manage to glance at the speedometer even when driving on a track at decent pace; the problem is that I can't fully trust the number I see there.

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure there's no real reason why they don't just bump the refresh rate to at least 10 Hz.
There might be some minor reasons (watch the reading jump +-1 mph on a straight between T6 and T7 in my video), but those are very much fixable.
It's just apparently not a priority for them.
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-14-2021, 11:38 PM   #30
p1l0t
Senior Member
 
p1l0t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Hyperblue
Location: West Hartford, CT
Posts: 7,555
Thanks: 19,605
Thanked 8,202 Times in 4,243 Posts
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
I know a guy, he goes by Doc. He's pretty good at getting the timing right though.



Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
p1l0t is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to p1l0t For This Useful Post:
soundman98 (04-15-2021)
Old 04-14-2021, 11:57 PM   #31
timurrrr
Senior Member
 
timurrrr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2019
Drives: '17 BRZ with PP
Location: Between Sonoma and Laguna Seca
Posts: 479
Thanks: 482
Thanked 240 Times in 156 Posts
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by p1l0t View Post
I know a guy, he goes by Doc. He's pretty good at getting the timing right though.
FWIW, I've already started thinking that I can just read the speed from the CAN bus (like I already do for another DIY device)
and show it on a large 3-digit 7-segment LED display above the gauge cluster.

This will also provide a better viewing angle!
Heck, it might even be bright enough to reflect in the windshield and then I can put it pretty high in my field of view, like the HUD in Corvettes.

Let's see if I find time to try this
timurrrr is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to timurrrr For This Useful Post:
p1l0t (04-15-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 12:04 AM   #32
p1l0t
Senior Member
 
p1l0t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Hyperblue
Location: West Hartford, CT
Posts: 7,555
Thanks: 19,605
Thanked 8,202 Times in 4,243 Posts
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
FWIW, I've already started thinking that I can just read the speed from the CAN bus (like I already do for another DIY device)

and show it on a large 3-digit 7-segment LED display above the gauge cluster.



This will also provide a better viewing angle!

Heck, it might even be bright enough to reflect in the windshield and then I can put it pretty high in my field of view, like the HUD in Corvettes.



Let's see if I find time to try this
HUD is the way to go.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
p1l0t is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to p1l0t For This Useful Post:
NoHaveMSG (04-15-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 01:16 AM   #33
soundman98
threadwrecker
 
soundman98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Drives: '14 brz limited
Location: chicago-ish
Posts: 6,289
Thanks: 18,046
Thanked 7,187 Times in 3,656 Posts
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
How is this at 32 posts...
__________________
my '14 brz limited "the return to normal" (or is it?)
led mods-10%(planning/designing/sitting on hands)audio mods-99%(done is never done)

hidplanet build log
soundman98 is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to soundman98 For This Useful Post:
MICHAEL450f (04-18-2021), Sport-Tech (04-15-2021), Tcoat (04-15-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 02:52 AM   #34
PandaEighty-Six
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Drives: 2018 Toyota 86 GT Black
Location: Mid-Atlantic
Posts: 36
Thanks: 8
Thanked 23 Times in 12 Posts
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
Thank you, this is decisive. Unfortunately, it can be clearly seen that the instantaneous speed is updated approximately every half second.
Fair enough. I definitely the lag in the speedometer. It gives me the same vibes I had with my old S2000.
__________________
2018 Toyota 86, GT Black Edition (white with black accents)

- Blitz air filter
PandaEighty-Six is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 04:04 AM   #35
Kronk
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Drives: Planning for GR86
Location: Milano, Italy
Posts: 43
Thanks: 17
Thanked 20 Times in 16 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by timurrrr View Post
Ask a passenger to record a video of your dash during a 060 mph launch, and review it frame by frame. You'll notice that it will show something like 58 and 62 mph, but not 60. Or, if you're lucky, it will show 56, 60 and 64
Here it's worse than this, because the change of instant km/h is almost faster the double. 60 mph -> 96,5 km/h
Kronk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 06:49 AM   #36
Tcoat
He who smelt it...
 
Tcoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Drives: 2020 Hakone
Location: London, Ont
Posts: 64,249
Thanks: 56,951
Thanked 95,921 Times in 41,904 Posts
Mentioned: 2314 Post(s)
Tagged: 50 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundman98 View Post
How is this at 32 posts...
Because there is absolutely nothing else to talk about.
__________________
Racecar spelled backwards is Racecar, because Racecar.
Tcoat is online now   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Tcoat For This Useful Post:
MICHAEL450f (04-18-2021), soundman98 (04-15-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 08:47 AM   #37
p1l0t
Senior Member
 
p1l0t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Hyperblue
Location: West Hartford, CT
Posts: 7,555
Thanks: 19,605
Thanked 8,202 Times in 4,243 Posts
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
Here it's worse than this, because the change of instant km/h is almost faster the double. 60 mph -> 96,5 km/h
Correct MPH > KMH

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
p1l0t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 09:38 AM   #38
Sport-Tech
Senior Member
 
Sport-Tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Drives: TBD
Location: Toronto
Posts: 2,317
Thanks: 437
Thanked 520 Times in 297 Posts
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat View Post
Because there is absolutely nothing else to talk about.
So here's a quick way to get jaws flapping around these parts - start a new thread lamenting the fact that the new gen's manual transmission will not get auto rev-matching. (Then immediately get yourself out of the line of fire.)
Sport-Tech is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Sport-Tech For This Useful Post:
p1l0t (04-15-2021), Tcoat (04-15-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 09:47 AM   #39
Dadhawk
1st86 Driver!
 
Dadhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Drives: '13 FR-S (#3 of 1st 86)
Location: Powder Springs, GA
Posts: 16,098
Thanks: 30,560
Thanked 18,434 Times in 8,683 Posts
Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 4 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by mazeroni View Post
Ford does something similar. The screen updates all data when it refreshes. It doesn't "skip."
Just because it doesn't skip doesn't mean it's accurate. Increases in velocity are not necessarily linear. If you go from 0 to 60MPH in 3 seconds that does not necessarily mean you pass through every xMPH in between 0 and 60MPH.

However, if at the same time you are using an analog gauge, it will appear to go through each phase out of necessity, thus providing the smoothness that you see simulated here in the Ford gauge, as it is very unlikely it is an more accurate than the other displays. As was already said, its just programming.

There is a polling interval. Depending on the increase in speed the vehicle will have gone from Speed A to Speed B during that time. You can either show the increase in speed by showing the actual number (say 0 then 10) or you can choose to show every number in between (0,1,2,3...,10).

In the first example, you are showing the actual speed at the time it is sampled, minus processing time and display time, so you are slightly past it.

In the second example, you still have the processing time but now you need to eat up cycles covering all the number between 0 and 10, so that by the time you show the 10, you have already accelerated past it, and the display is lagging.

Now mind you we may be talking microseconds differences here, but there is a difference and programming choice has to be made.
__________________

Visit my Owner's Journal where I wax philosophic on all things FR-S
Post your 86 or see others in front of a(n) (in)famous landmark.
What fits in your 86? Show us the "Junk In Your Trunk".
Dadhawk is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dadhawk For This Useful Post:
JesseG (04-20-2021), mazeroni (04-15-2021)
Old 04-15-2021, 09:59 AM   #40
Lelandjt
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Drives: '04 STi, '12 Mazda 3 Hatch
Location: Breckenridge, CO
Posts: 63
Thanks: 3
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kronk View Post
I love the feeling of progression on km/h-mph and rpm and the precision that gives you the analog instruments.
You can have that feeling on digital instruments only if the increment is by unit and not by time.
I've seen something similar only on Tesla and Ferrari.

Here (0:24) you can see what I mean.


And here (0:34) you can see what I hate.


I know, this is a minor thing but...just to pass the wait.
Yikes, that is bad. I haven't been in new cars with these displays but that would really be annoying.
Lelandjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 10:01 AM   #41
Lelandjt
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Drives: '04 STi, '12 Mazda 3 Hatch
Location: Breckenridge, CO
Posts: 63
Thanks: 3
Thanked 21 Times in 14 Posts
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ls1ac View Post
The early digital speedos did try to show the exact speed. Fine when cruising but unreadable when accelerating or slowing down as all of the segment were flashing so fast that no number was readable. Over the years they have improved by skipping and holding a number long enough to be read.

The first video show that the 1st digit is un readable.
We had the opposite reaction. I find the first video much more readable than the second.
Lelandjt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2021, 10:07 AM   #42
p1l0t
Senior Member
 
p1l0t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Drives: 2016 Subaru BRZ Hyperblue
Location: West Hartford, CT
Posts: 7,555
Thanks: 19,605
Thanked 8,202 Times in 4,243 Posts
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadhawk View Post
Just because it doesn't skip doesn't mean it's accurate. Increases in velocity are not necessarily linear. If you go from 0 to 60MPH in 3 seconds that does not necessarily mean you pass through every xMPH in between 0 and 60MPH.



However, if at the same time you are using an analog gauge, it will appear to go through each phase out of necessity, thus providing the smoothness that you see simulated here in the Ford gauge, as it is very unlikely it is an more accurate than the other displays. As was already said, its just programming.



There is a polling interval. Depending on the increase in speed the vehicle will have gone from Speed A to Speed B during that time. You can either show the increase in speed by showing the actual number (say 0 then 10) or you can choose to show every number in between (0,1,2,3...,10).



In the first example, you are showing the actual speed at the time it is sampled, minus processing time and display time, so you are slightly past it.



In the second example, you still have the processing time but now you need to eat up cycles covering all the number between 0 and 10, so that by the time you show the 10, you have already accelerated past it, and the display is lagging.



Now mind you we may be talking microseconds differences here, but there is a difference and programming choice has to be made.
Yeah I feel like sometimes my car accelerates slower going uphill versus downhill.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
p1l0t is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to p1l0t For This Useful Post:
Dzmitry (04-15-2021)
 
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
In-dash digital speedometer vaer Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 4 04-14-2020 10:19 AM
Does the BRZ get same refresh? snezze21 BRZ First-Gen (2012+) -- General Topics 74 03-24-2016 01:51 PM
Convert the digital speedometer from Kmh to MPH? Jastation Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 10 09-28-2015 05:46 AM
Digital speedometer in base GT86? rhysmcinerney Electronics | Audio | NAV | Infotainment 25 01-22-2014 06:18 PM
Fast car Fast driver vinyl decal I need help francosolracer Cosmetic Modification (Interior/Exterior/Lighting) 18 10-20-2012 03:43 AM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Garage vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.